When I had housemates in the past, I respected this until 9AM, at that point, unless you actually have a reason to stay up past 1AM (for an 8hr sleep), then I’m afraid then it sucks to be you and I’ll just be normal amounts of quiet.
You’ve not worked night shifts clearly!
He did mention if you had a reason you had to stay up past 1AM
Work for a living? Unreasonable.
Totally reasonable to have other sleep schedules requiring quiet at certain times of the day, just I think it’s on the person asking for something non-standard (and currently it is a social norm to be awake and asleep at certain hours, right or wrong) it’s on the person to actually communicate it, rather than expect it.
Is it only rude to slam a door in someone’s face between 9am and 6pm? Consideration shouldn’t have hours. If anything, I would say doing something inconsiderate would be the person with the onus of asking. Hey, does it bother you when I turn the music up all the way at 7am when I make breakfast? … yes. Yes it does. If they tell you its fine then it is on them. Still rude, but they were asked.
Who’s saying slamming doors? Who’s saying turning on music. You’re straw-manning me.
I’m saying opening and closing doors normally (still makes some sound unless you’re being very, very careful) using the kitchen normally to prepare food (still makes some sound).
Does this seem rude when no indication of other needs is given? If yes, that’s my issue with people in this thread, the assumption that night should be treated the same as day by default, and you’re a dick otherwise.
My lordy.
You just sound like a dick, dude.
Normal amounts of quiet. It’s not like I ran around the house banging pots and pans.
I feel like Lemmy really self-selects for “night-owls” (people have different chronotypes sure, but like, if you’re staying up to 3,4 AM, then you have sleep issues, it’s not a chronotype to be up this late. Humans aren’t nocturnal. And I say this as someone who has had sleep issues where I have been up that late. You know what I never did, complained that my housemates closed the door a normal amount at 10AM and made a normal amount of noise at that time)… that feel hard done by.
Like, it’s called getting along with others, it’s something you need to learn when living in a sharehouse.
I went to bed at 5-6 am for a few years. I didn’t have sleep issues whatsoever. Slept the same amount and felt just as rested (more if anything) as now where I have a “normal” sleep schedule.
There’s also people that, yknow, work at night, whose sleep might start at 9.
I don’t think it’s necessarily wrong to not limit yourself greatly on what u do based on if someones sleeping as long as you avoid very loud things (a pleasant fuck you to my mom (love you) for insisting she needs to vacuum at like 11 every second day when I had that sleep schedule), but your reasoning is just bull.
See I actually agree with you on this, to a point, that if you’re working night shift and your mum knew about it, then it’s pretty unfair to be doing the vacuuming at that time each day if she knows you’re going to bed that late.
If you’re just deciding/feeling it’s better for you to be going to sleep that late with no other reasons, then yeah, I do think it was on you to come to some other compromise with your mum about when she can vacuum. In the early afternoon after you wake up for example.
It’s the “other people should work around me by default” attitude that I take issue with. When the standard is be awake during the day (right or wrong), then I think it’s on the people asking for deviation from that to ask for accommodation.
Hope this clears things up a bit.
You seem to only be accounting for people who are like yourself. It’s hard to picture other people’s minds because we only have ours to go by, but it’s important to acknowledge that other minds work very differently from our own.
I was a habitual night owl in my twenties. Went to sleep at dawn and woke up around noon. I didn’t have sleep issues, I was always incredibly rested and full of energy.
Now I sleep at 10 and wake up around 6. I have less energy but I am now a morning person. I can easily get up at 4 for occasions.
You’re making judgements on others based on your own biased view, one that only sees it your way. That’s why you’re being down voted.
People should be mindful of noise at all times, but if it’s late in the morning, I feel it’s unreasonable to have an expectation of tip-toeing around without bringing it up and asking if you can come to some sort of an arrangement.
It’s the expectation that I think is the problem.
Whereas the expectation that daytime is for normal activity is not unreasonable. Why? Because that is the way it has been and still is. It doesn’t mean it’s “good”, or “fair”, but it is the current standard and if you want to deviate from it it should be up to you to say something to get what you need.
We have norms and standards in society that people do expect, these different in different parts of the world. Bring a gift when you meet parents for the first time (east Asia), don’t be loud at night (Nachtruhe, Germany). If you want to deviate, then yes, it’s on you and communicate.
As I’ve repeated in other comments, if there is some reason someone needs to sleep at “unstandard” hours, then I’m not suggesting they just deal with it and suffer.
What I am suggesting is that it shouldn’t be taken for granted that day time should be treated the same as night, and that staying up late should mean others need to tip-toe around during the day without asking (unless there is some other reason, or you ask for it to be different because XYZ)
That makes sense, thanks for clarifying. I agree, and what it boils down to is healthy communication and respect.
I appreciate you saying that mate.
I’m quite happy waking up at 3pm and going to bed at 6am. To be honest, I think anyone waking up at or before 10am and going to bed before 12am is a weirdo who has sleep issues and I just can’t respect that. If I make too much noise when you’re trying to sleep, well, that’s just too bad innit?
/s
As mentioned in other threads, it’s just the expectation that bothers me.
If you’re deviating from a social norm (and right or wrong, it is still a social norm), I think it’s on you to communicate it properly.
Again, people should be reasonably quiet at all times, but it is unfair to have the expectation that the day will be as quiet as the night without prior discussion.
Literlly my roomate. He sometimes even goes through the house with a horn.
Those are the moments I wish for not living with him together.
Morning people are courtious and quiet for the ones sleeping late. On the other hand when a night person has to wake up early, they’ll wake everyone else as well
I’m a night person but proper sleep only works at night so I had to become an early waking very quiet night person.
Oh fuck no, you should see the difference between me and my girlfriend when the other is asleep, I used to work night shift and she wouldn’t wake up when I came back at 4am even if we lived in a 500sq ft apartment, but she sure as hell would wake me up at 7 am by making breakfast and coffee!
I had a roommate that loved pour over coffee in the morning. That in itself isn’t the issue; she taught me how to use her V60 and it actually makes pretty good coffee.
No, the issue was she ground her beans fresh. Every morning, at 6AM. Know what the loudest sound in the universe is? An electric coffee grinder at 6AM.
Fuck that
Yea I’m quiet AF when I wake up early. The longer everyone else sleeps the more quiet time I get.
wake up early
You failed the simple task of reading how descriptions work today.
Do I have a typo or something? English is not my first language.
I mean when a night person has to (for any of the variety of reasons) wake up at morning time
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When s night person has to wake up early… What in the afternoon?
Appointments, travel, taking care of people. It can happen as society doesn’t adjust for night people
Maybe instead of being exclusively for one group over others, our society could kinda be for everycritter?
[Sarcasm, though not necessarily directed at the person I’m replying to] Nah, why would we want a liveable world when we can just demand that everyone be a damn automaton that exists to work all day.
grouches irritably, hates world
Yeah agreed. Flexibility would benefit a lot
lol Why the fuck is this the most downvoted reply? Did you all even read it, or did you count the score and prepare yourself for outrage? There’s literally nothing wrong with what was said. ‘Night people struggle with morning behavior more than morning people.’ Sounds like a valid perspective, esp if this person lives with/is a courteous morning person.
Kneejerk reaction or something. I don’t mind. Maybe the voters were in a tired haze.
My partner, 6am without fail.
If you deviate from the norm, don’t expect the majority to tip-toe around your sensibilities.
So fucking much this. They have no respect for the owls
And they are so f*cking proud of being up early as if a short sleep is something worth to accomplish
If you’re sleeping off a night shift and I’m up early I’ll be quite as a church mouse. But if you’re just laying in bed for no reason then you can deal with the noise of whatever I need to get done
All the lazy people down voting you
“”“lazy”“” okay what if I think you’re lazy for not being up at 2am?
It’s scientifically proven that humans actually have differing sleep cycles. This has evolutionary advantages which is why it’s a trait we retained.
Imagine how lazy you must be to go to bed early. You should be up doing things. /s (ofc)
Pretty lazy to be sleeping at 8pm
Lazy people can’t stay up until 2 o clock.
Why? Night owls aren’t allowed to sleep until they wake up by themselves?
Morning persons are allowed to fall asleep whenever they want. You don’t see us shouting just because you are already asleep before 12 'o clock.
Day time just is the default living time
I get up at 6 and go to bed at 10 for work but I’m gonna be honest anytime before 9 am or after midnight is quiet hours imo
Only because rich sociopaths decided that it was better to force the serfs into working at the same times than it was to allow people to work around the clock according to their own sleep schedules. Before you try to tell me that this isn’t a rich people thing, you absolutely can’t convince that it didn’t start that way. Rich people’s money may not trickle down, but their bad opinions and beliefs sure as hell do.
Doesn’t it come from farming and probably even before that, with humans being diurnal
And what about the humans who kept watch at night?
They kept watch so rest of the tribe could sleep.
Right, but they’re not going to do their job very well if they’re sleepy. Over time evolution is going to select for the nightwatchers who don’t get sleepy and overlook the shadows in the night, leading to humans who are comfortable being awake at night, and humans who are comfortable being awake during the day. The day humans get food, make clothes, etc for the night humans who make sure the farmers, gatherers, etc are safe when they’re asleep.
Edit: I wonder if there’s a correlation between being ADHD, being a night owl, and gun ownership. ADHD is speculated to be a residual evolutionary trait from when humans were hunter gatherers due to a typically heightened awareness; I wonder how often ADHD humans found themselves as the nightwatch as humans graduated to farming.
Depends on how far we’re talking here. 8pm bedtime? Reasonable. 4pm bedtime? Yeah no I’m not tiptoeing for you.
Similarly, 8am wakeup? Ok I’ll tiptoe if I can. Noon? Probably no.
You shouldn’t disturb other people whether they’re asleep or awake. Buying a pair of slippers or flip flops for indoors and not slamming doors and cupboards isn’t exactly a monumental ask at any time of day.
I think that’s fair and true so long as both parties can talk about it and come to an agreement and understanding.
“I only respect people who live similarly to me”
Never worked nightshifts?
The cleaning crew at the hotel on my last business trips are always extremely noisy. But I’ve just hit the bed after my shift, some breakfast and a beer.
Would be nice to at least once get 6 full hours of sleep…I have not but I simpathise for you. I tried to word my reply to indicate that there were cases that didn’t follow my rule of thumb… Cases like yours it makes sense to wake up… Frankly whenever.
8pm bedtime is not reasonable to us. In Belgium the law says we can make noise until 10 before neighbors are allowed to call the police.
So by your logic, I can keep shouting next to the place you try to sleep for an other 2 hours.
I’m very confused by this statement. Does nobody in Belgium really go to bed before 10? If you knew your neighbor had to be up by 4am every day and had a child, and knew they had to go to bed by 8, would you not try to be nice if they were nice in kind?
See our house is totally opposite, I get up early, take myself downstairs feed the pets and have a nice quiet morning. My wife will arrive at bed at 1am, throw the bedroom light on, rattle all the drawers for PJ’s, loudly demand I wake up so I can watch whatever Facebook video she’s been watching and announce we should have a serious conversation about where we should book for holidays this year.
When I complain, it’s 1am and I gotta get up at 6:30 suddenly I’m the reason we never talk anymore…
That don’t sound good bud.
If your marriage is worth it to you, a consider getting on her schedule somehow. Some people just don’t think about that shit. I started waking up before my ex because she was complete chaos every morning. She’d scream and throw things around. She was ultimately diagnosed with BPD right after we had a major crash and burn.
The girl I’m with now is the opposite. She’s calm, considerate, and an all around amazing partner. There are things she don’t think about though. She loudly looks for her pajamas too (she don’t turn the damn light on thank goodness) but I know she cares for me and considers me because she does so much to show it.
She wakes me up to talk too, but we’re roughly on the same schedule. It bugs me when she does, but it legit doesn’t bother her a bit so if I complained she wouldn’t even remotely understand why I was complaining. It’s no big deal to her to wake up and go right back to sleep.
Sometimes you have to make big changes for the sake of your marriage. Some people can work on opposite schedules and get along fine. Some people can’t.
I wouldn’t wish divorce on a modern day Hitler. It was hands down the worst experience of my life. I don’t regret it now because I’m happier now than I’ve ever been. I’m with someone who I work well with and who I love on a level I didn’t even know was possible (as cheesy as that sounds, I’ve never been happy to do things for anyone else like I do for her). She’s someone I legitimately want to make sacrifices for. If I had to go through that shit again though, I don’t even know if I could. I might check out early or just start walking and never look back.
Think back to why you married your wife. I’m telling you, once it’s done you will and it won’t be any fun.
Just hearing my ex talk just about drove me up the wall though haha. It did from the very beginning too. She was just cool as hell and an amazing artist. I admired her when I thought about her, just couldn’t handle her when I was around her. She was so arrogant and certain that she was the best thing on the planet, which was really just her insecurity talking and playing confident somewhat, but god I couldn’t stand it. I legit think she was one of the best writers the world has ever known, but so did she and good god.
Haha, I went on a tirade there, sorry.
Idk man, sounds to me like his wife is very inconsiderate, or unaware that some people are deeply asleep at 1am. This behavior should not regularly happen between people who respect each other and clearly communicate their needs. Maybe they can find a different solution than him changing his entire schedule.
Anyway, I just wanted to browse memes while taking a dump. Strange how these internet conversations come to be.
Sir this is
wendyslemmyOhhhh shit. I’ll take a chairman Mao with a Lenin side. And ummmm, one order of Stalins with a Pot of Marx.
Oh, I have a lightweight in the car, he’ll have a Sankara with no extras. He said make it work this time around, please!
:p
I swear if there’s two types of people Lemmy hates as much Nazis and billionaires it’s poor people and people who don’t work first shift
Billionaires don’t work first shift either. Maybe that’s why they hate them.
This meme is saying that the people who work the first shift are inconsiderate.
Where are you getting the impression lemmy hates night workers?
There’s several people in this thread going off about how it’s not inconsiderate to wake people up at times like 1pm or 4pm regardless of sleep schedule or any other circumstances.
There’s also another post about people mowing their lawns at the ass crack of dawn and it’s full of morning people telling night people to fuck off and that it’s their own fault.
I’ve also regularly interacted with people who simply do not respect night workers at all
That isn’t a Lemmy thing, but a morning people thing. I’ve seen it all over.
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I tried my whole life to get up early, one day I just gave up. Started my own company, bought a house - now I live and work like nature made me. No, I wear clothes, it’s just the sleep. Btw it’s interesting when you’re hiring how many people are like that and love the hours. I can recommend that to every night person.
It’s unfortunate that most business owners seem to be morning people and demand that all of their employees do the same.
I’m barely functional by 8 AM and you want me to DRIVE? And DO WORK before 10 AM?
I swear, I do 80% of my work between 2PM and 5PM.
I want to work for a company like yours 🥲
that sounds like a cool sitcom TV show idea about a seemingly normal company except they work at night — like a vampire version of The Office
Shut up and take my money.
Most of the startups I’ve worked for dont have any of their meetings until nearly lunch time to account for the fact that most programmers stay up late
If I wake the morning people up I’d have to spend time with them, which kind of defeats the purpose of being a night person.
Hah, yeah I learned I wasn’t so much a night person as much as someone who indulges in revenge sleep procrastinating and doesn’t get enough alone time in the day.
I worked in the nightshitf for almost 2 years and can confirm this is so true.
This was me when my ex was asleep on the left, her when I was asleep on the right.
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Morning people, in my experience at least, firmly believe that night people are just morning people with insufficient self-discipline.
There’s actually a genetic bias on it. It can be overridden, but you’ll always feel a bit burnt out from it. It also changes with age (teenagers are the latest, getting earlier as you age.
Til I’m still going through my teenage years. I’m straight up nocturnal now. I wasn’t as a teenager.
For anyone curious about it, here are some sources.
As a night person who has to wake up at 6am, I can absolutely confirm. I’m always tired.
I’m the same way. If I fall asleep at 10pm but wake up at 6am I’m absolutely miserable for the first hour, but if I go to sleep at 2am and wake up at 10am I’m refreshed and in a good mood most of the time. I’m 30 and it hasn’t gotten any better with age yet.
Fuck mornings I hate them so much.
44 and still this way 2am-10am is pretty much my dream schedule.
Unfortunately I have a child.
I have to wake up early too. The good part is I don’t even remember the first hour of work and once I’m awake I only have to work for 7 more hours.
Edit: nevermind, I can’t math.
Yeah no matter what time I go to bed, if I have to wake up before 8 in the morning I’ll be tired. I’m just not built for early mornings
I had to get up at 05:30 during my teenage years to get to school in time, which was horrible. If I slept in, I could easily sleep til noon or even later. Now that I’m older, I usually wake up around 08:00, even on weekends.
Lmao, 100%. I swear most folks I know believe being a night owl is simply a lack of self control, or they have a screw loose
sure it’s a lack of self control, if i had better self control i could force myself to go to bed at 21:00 and lie there for 2 hours until i fall asleep out of tortured boredom, and then i could force myself out of bed at 07:00 despite my limbs feeling like lead and every movement bringing me abject misery and pain!
I used to be a night owl, then I had a job that required me to get up at 5:30. It sucked for 2 weeks and now I’m a morning person.
I had the opposite experience a few years ago, I am very much a night owl.
I did a job that required me in the office for 7am for a few months, I was noticeably less effective for the whole duration, I was just slower at everything and was basically constantly tired. Switched back to getting in for 9-10am and the difference was night and day, as basically I was back to my old levels of effectiveness after a day or two.
I just think I’m one of these people that cannot adapt, or at least if I do, it comes with a cost.
I’m a night owl and even early morning acclimatization hasn’t helped.
There were a few months that I had to do 12.5 hour shift work where I had to be at work at 5:30 AM and I was miserable the entire time. It’s hard to adjust when your natural cycle is like 10 am to 2 am.
I’ve done all the shifts and it fucking sucks.
We did week about shifts. That meant earlies for a week, nights, then lates. Every week you had to change your sleep pattern.
I liked earlies to nights because long weekend (finish 11am Fri start 10am Mon) and a fun “adaptation” that required me to stay up as late as I possibly could on Sunday night. I’d drink, smoke and play games with US chums (UK here) until 3 or 4am and then sleep as late as possible.
It fucking sucked but I did it for a good decade. Then managed to wangle permanent 6-2 shift.
It was a revelation.
Suddenly I had a regular sleep pattern. It was hard to train, but I managed to get a good 6 hours a night most nights. Which was good, I’ve always suffered insomnia for lots of reasons, so I managed to become one of those people that survives on minimal sleep. More sleep was amazing.
I’ve kind of got it down nowadays, thanks in no small part to some pills I was given for my restless legs. They make me drowsy, so if I take them at the right time I can force a sleep pattern, and they stop me kicking my wife up the arse when I’m asleep.
Back to your point after a trip through the weeds, I now do 2 week late shift and 2 week early shift, there’s a permanent night shift at this new place.
When I’m on the early shift I wake up at 5am on the Saturday and Sunday without fail. Once I forgot to set my alarm for work and woke up a minute before it should have gone off. Years of the early shift have honed my wake up time to a knife edge.
Sometimes on the weekend I can’t get back to sleep for various reasons, so it’s not an uncommon sight to find me gaming on my PC at 7am on a Sunday morning. I don’t want to be there, but it’s kinda nice having the peace and quiet of being a night owl with the sun up and a sleep cycle behind instead of in front of you.
I think I had never seen this much upvoted post on kbin. You speak the truth, brother/sister/sibling!
This wasn’t posted on kbin though.
I said upvoted post on kbin. Not posted on kbin. I might be wrong, but I think I see only kbin upvotes and downvotes. Right now I see 6 upvoted and 1 downvote to the post you have replied. How much do you see?
Oh, I wasn’t aware it tallied the votes separately. Interesting and I apologize.
I only see the summary score on my lemmy client, not the amount of down votes and upvotes, but it’s way beyond 300 as of this post.
Why don’t I see you calling out people who say “Lemmy” under kbin posts?
I will! Point me to them and my fury will STRIKE them down!
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Well what it ‘proves’ to them is that mankind is supposed to follow the exact same routine that works for them. My Dad was forever saying “Early to bed, early to rise makes a man healthy, wealthy and wise.” Died when he was 45.
Was he wealthy or wise?
He didn’t have a ton of money certainly. It’s fair to say he wasn’t a complete idiot but I think that even the example I’ve given so far argues against any claim to sagacity.
To quote Yakko Warner:
Early to rise and early to bed makes a man healthy, but socially dead
eh, all my friends go to bed at like 9pm lmao
So do I. Don’t tell anyone.
My dad is still among us, even though I grew up with his take on it, loosely translated:
Early awake, early asleep. That brings health to every weeb.
It’s possible that he already translated it from English (your dad’s saying or an unknown variation of it), and that I’ve now translated it back to English, for each translation moving a bit further away from the original meaning in order to keep it rhyming. (I wrote “weeb” to make it rhyme, my dad’s version said “boy”.)
