I don’t like Biden either, but anyone with half a brain knows there are two choices in the 2020 election. If we had a sane voting system, voting third party might be worth it, but as it stands, no one but you knows your favorite candidate exists and unless you want to become their campaign manager that will still be true in November. Even if you did, and even if you convinced two thirds of the people who would otherwise have voted for Biden to vote for your chosen candidate instead, Trump would still win because half the country voted for him and your guy only got a third. If you vote third party you might as well stay home.
Not voting isn’t going to stop the genocide in Gaza. The US will continue to funnel them arms no matter which candidate wins this November. Trump practically campaigns on how much he hates the Jews and he’s publicly told Israel to “finish up their war”. He’ll also make life a living hell for anyone who isn’t a straight cisgender male back here at home.
A vote for a candidate is not an endorsement of them or their policies, it’s a statement that you like their policies more than the other guy’s, and “sticking it to liberals” and “refusing to support genocide” (that’s not what voting for Biden is doing, by the way – a vote for either candidate is a vote for genocide and a vote for neither is an endorsement of both) is not more important than keeping the furthest right politician America has ever seen out of office.
How incredibly privileged do you have to be to see an entire national election as what will happen in the Middle East and ignore Trump’s campaign promises to wipe transgender Americans off the map, and further, to not realize that the same thing will happen in the Middle East regardless of which candidate wins?
I hate Biden as much as every other leftist here. But I’ll still vote for him because Trump is worse. If there’s a single bone in your body that cares about the lives of your trans friends you will too.
Well, it’s fine as long as you’re not voting for one of the genocidal candidates.
If i’m being realistic with myself the reason I won’t vote is because it’s futile. The USA like to give you the illusion of choice and “Democracy” while at the same time having the most undemocratic two-party system any civilized nation can have. Going through the process of voting for either a genocider or a fascist is a waste of my time, and that time can be spent playing another game of league or whatever, at least I’ll have some fun. America won’t change because of my vote, or any of your votes. America will change because of coordinated, collective action from unions and when people decide to eat the rich.
And i’d even argue that refusing to vote IS democratic and not necessarily evil. Biden committed a genocide, he needs to feel the consequences of a disinterested and conflicted democratic base.
I think we should stop rationalizing and proselytizing the act of voting. Choosing to vote for red, green or blue, or not choosing to vote at all, is a personal decision. Rationalizing it won’t do anyone any favors, and demonizing people that don’t vote or don’t vote for your personal candidate because it doesn’t fit in your ideology just makes you a bigot.
Do I hate the two party system? Yes. Do I hate the fact that centrists like Joe Liberman who literally killed universal healthcare in the US are revered and embraced by Biden’s party? Yes. Do I hate the fact that Democrats are always dismissive of liberal ideas and often act like complete jackasses and can’t admit that when Obama was running there were a ton of Clinton supporters that didn’t vote for Obama in a blatant act of pure hypocrisy? Yes.
Do I fucking hate Nazis and Fascist? Fuck yes.
Hence why even if I don’t like the Democrat running, I’ll vote for them and honestly, Biden isn’t too sucktastic. Except for kyrsten sinema, she can fuck right the hell off forever.
The party needs to start trying to win apathetic voters over if they’re as terrified as they claim to be of trump, not just spout vague platitudes, push out the most bare bones minimum viable policy possible and then shrug when it gets dismembered in committee.
I hate how so many critics talk about they when criticising a political party. Get involved. Run for local office, become a part of the inside of the party. How can Democrats ever represent younger leftists, when so few of the younger leftists let their voice be heard outside of anonymous forums?
Hey are you involved in your political party? Have you run for local office?
You aren’t also being a hypocrite by telling other people to get involved while not doing it yourself right?
Yeah lemme get like $2,000,000 so I can go run for office.
Campaigns don’t tend to be self-funded.
All so a bunch of white Boomers can show up and vote against you for being “too radical”.
democrats are fascist.
not literally everything that’s bad is fascist
Okay they Billy Madison.
this doesnt change the truth of what i said
Sure. Very nice truthiness there Billy.
this is an appeal to ridicule. it is not a rebuttal
Do I hate everything going on in this country? Yes. Do I still keep voting to have the same shit happen over and over? Yes.
I mean if you want to vote in a bunch of fucking Nazis and fascists just for some change , well feel fucking free to do so, I’m just going to consider you stupid and a Nazi.
Do I hate the fact that centrists like Joe Liberman who literally killed universal healthcare in the US are revered and embraced by Biden’s party?
Joe Biden explicitly said he would veto any legislation involving universal healthcare. You oppose universal healthcare, but you’re hiding behind the spectre of “centrists”.
And again, as a minority in America, I would take Biden over a Nazi any day. Doesn’t mean I love him to death and would take him into my arms and give him a reach around but fuck anyone who would vote for a Nazi.
There aren’t many people that call themselves leftist and elections are won for Democrats by getting disinterested voters to the polls.
This meme is trash and serves no purpose other than dividing people. Anyone worried about Biden to losing this election should hope he changes strategies and starts motivating voters like he did 2020.
Why dont you pressure Biden to stop genociding people then? I have a hard and fast rule about genocide, sorry but present day me doesn’t make the rules about who I vote for.
Do you believe Trump/Republicans will decrease, maintain, or increase the current genocide levels?
I mean Biden spent more on the immigrant wall than Trump, so prob less genocide somehow, seeing as how there is precedent. Funny how none of the presidents tackle the corporation side of the “immigrant problem” by going after people hiring the undocumented if that is such a big problem. You remove the incentive that would slow it down more than trying to torture people at the border no?
I’ve still never seen or heard of any leftists who won’t vote in the generals. It’s like ya’ll are screaming fire because you saw the mist which was the noncommitted votes in the DNC Primary.
Not voting isn’t going to stop the genocide in Gaza.
maybe it will stop the next one though
if democrats learn that allowing a genocide to unfold on their watch is going to lose them elections, you can bet they’ll put more effort into stopping it
if democrats learn that allowing genocide to unfold on their watch actually doesn’t make that much difference, why would they bother themselves to stop it?
A vote is not an unconditional endorsement
a vote for a candidate is an endorsement for all of their policies, whether you want it to be or not
your reluctant vote looks exactly the same on the tally as somebody else’s wholehearted vote, and votes are what politicians base their platforms on.
If you vote third party you might as well stay home.
this is just a misconception
if the democrats lose a million votes to a third party, then yeah, they’re going to modify their policies next time around
The United States won’t be destroyed by a handful of people not getting off their collective ass on election day and 3rd parties aren’t viable.
3rd parties aren’t viable
this is just a misconception
if the democrats lose a million votes to a third party, then yeah, they’re going to modify their policies next time around
Yeah and meanwhile Trump wins and we’re all fucked. Just keep patting yourself on the back as we all sink. The OP is absolutely correct.
Don’t be fooled, this is absolutely the angle foreign disinformation agents are pushing. “Genocide Joe” is no different than “Bernie or Bist”, he’ll, or “Stop the steal”
Don’t be fooled, this is absolutely the angle foreign disinformation agents are pushing. “Genocide Joe”
I don’t think this has any proof.
Lol political threads at night on lemmy are good proof. So weird how at night, all of lemmy is suddenly not liking the idea of voting for Biden, or voting 3rd party, when during regular American hours it’s not the case. You’d have to be pretty ignorant or even part of the disinformation to not notice
“Foreign oligarchs are taking over!” - US oligarchs probably
if this were true it would be trivial to provide links
Literally look at this comment section: people are discouraging voting for Joe biden. What could the result be if everybody listened except that Trump would win the election? How does that even make sense if you care for the people in Gaza to get a new president that wants Isreal to “hurry up and finish up in Gaza”?
“oh but Biden isn’t perfect! The democratic party should only have a perfect candidate!” That’s not how real life works, and especially not the crappy voting system the US has. Either you help Biden wins the presidency, where he is at least trying to discourage Israel from further violence, or where Trump wins and he will continue to give Israel a thumbs up.
“but Genocide!” Yeah these are shitting options, but do you want more Genocide or less? There’s only one path with the potential for less genocide and not voting or voting for trump will only incur more of it.
Edit: Disregard. Previous comment broke site rules and I take it back. I apologize.
if you think voting for biden this time is more important, then by all means do that
just understand the choice you’re making, rather than pretending one doesn’t exist
Sounds like passing comprehensive electoral reform is not only the right thing to do, but it is also crucial to the stability of the country. Republicans obviously hate democracy, and have passed legislation trying to ban switching away from first past the post voting. Do you REALLY want to use the same voting system republicans want? What’s the excuse blue states?
Consider watching a video on First Past the Post voting if you want to know more.
next time
Woah, calm down buddy. No reason why there should be a next time. Republicans are already creating projects as if there isn’t.
if you think voting for biden this time is more important, then by all means do that
just understand the choice you’re making, rather than pretending one doesn’t exist
We understand we are voting for the candidate who realizes and disapproves of Israel’s treatment of Gaza (the other one would triple down and encourage it harder) as well as the candidate who supports Ukraine (the other one would give it to putin for free) and also the candidate who won’t genocide LGBT community within our own country.
Anyone who doesn’t vote Biden does not care about Gaza. Not at all. They’re just virtue signaling and afraid to admit they want to vote for Trump.
Biden has taken months to stop veto-ing UN votes on Gaza, and even when finally abstaining, his administration pulls its punches by claiming the vote is somehow “non-binding”.
Israel is still bombing Gaza, even after the ceasefire vote.
Biden says he cares about Gaza. His actions say otherwise.
He’s currently gambling that he can have his cake and eat it too, ie continue supporting Israel as a valuable foothold for the American Empire in the Middle East while also paying lip service to leftists.
We need to make sure he actually feels the heat of his actions and that they may cost him the election for him to meaningfully cease aid to Israel.
That’s absolutely terrible analysis. Just because you personally believe something doesn’t mean leftists that disagree with you want to vote directly for a fascist, and I say that as a leftist that is probably going to vote for Biden. I’m just not delusional about it, Biden hasn’t stopped the genocide at all when everyone knew it was a genocide months ago.
Yeah, it always strikes me as being super in bad faith when people accuse leftists of supporting Trump if we don’t pledge undying support to Biden. Keep that shit in places like reddit and lemmy.world imo (and actually, don’t even keep it there either because it’s bullshit)
Republicans trying to dismantle democracy and install an authoritarian government?
Sounds serious.
So when are democrats dropping gun control? Clearly there is a imminent existential threat to our nation!
God this namey, cookie-cutter teenage bullshit.
I just can’t believe it’s gonna be these two losers again. This is our best and brightest?
Lame.
Step 1: defeat Trump Step 2: help reshape Democratic party
Because the fact is, if we don’t do step 1 first, we’ll have our work cut out for us the next four or more years just being back in ‘The Resistance’. Which you know isn’t going to make the Dems more liberal, it’s going to pull them to the right as more dissatisfied Trump voters finally peel off.
On the other hand, the more resounding of a defeat we can dish out to the GQP and MAGA, the easier it will be to send them into the wilderness to regroup politically so we can focus all of our energies on the Democratic party.
Not advocating for voting third party, but how do you genuinely plan on reshaping the democrat party, and how would this time be different, compared to the past?
This is my question too. I’m old (Gen X), and I’ve never seen the Democrats acting progressive. The last time I had hope was in 08 when I volunteered for the Obama campaign, only for him to out himself as yet another conservative wearing progressive clothes once he took office.
The correct answer is that politicians are not simply groups of “good” and “evil” people, but people acting in the interests of the US state, and by extension the wealthy Capitalists that guide it.
Democrats are not a party of positive, incremental change, even if that’s how they position themselves. They act swiftly in the direction of liberalism, and only make concessions to leftists and progressives when they become threatening, not when leftists cooperate.
Waiting and voting harder for the least worst candidates just continues their existing trends, if the Dems had overwhelming support they would continue to do the bare minimum.
It’s not a coincidence that the GOP is far more radically fascist, that’s where they get their votes! That’s why the GOP manages to do a lot of damage, because if they didn’t, they would get tossed aside for another party. They cling on with barely enough support to occasionally get elected despite Democrat majority.
I wish I could upvote this one more than once. This is spot on, I think.
Maybe Marx had some good ideas, that’s all I’m saying, haha.
I think “Marx had some good ideas” is a statement leftists of every ideology can agree on!
This is a really contrived hypothesis and probably wishful thinking considering the current state of the world, but hear me out:
You know how the Overton window gets shifted? Rightwing voters grew a lot in the US and Democrats had to get more to the right to appeal to them and not keep losing.
We just need to force the reverse. If Democrats keep winning elections Republicans will be forced to put out a candidate that’s more palatable to leftists sooner or later. Someone who isn’t a literal movie villain. At that point, Democrats will lose their only selling point (being the alternative to Satan himself), and they will have to actually push for leftist policies to get people to vote.
This can only happen if Democrats win a lot of times in a row though. Even one Republican win will ensure them that they can keep pushing fascists and have a chance to win.
The thing I generally disagree with is the idea that Democrats would move leftward, and not just further into Liberalism. Even Social Democracies in the Nordic countries are seeing a decrease in the welfare state, just like Reagan did with FDR-era policies.
Sorry I wasn’t clear - I’m saying if you care about reshaping the Dems, you do it after we defeat Trump.
There is no guarantee it will be different this time, that’s politics. But giving up on it isn’t an option - politics happens to us whether we are active or not. But if you’re hoping for change, it’ll be a lot harder to see if Trump gets reelected. I promise you that.
That same line was told during 2020, 2016, 2008, 2000, and so forth. Where is the leftist concession? Where is the Democratic party being pushed? How are you planning on achieving change?
You’re basically just repeating yourself now. Like it or not, you’re parroting the played out lines that the Trumpist want us to repeat to strengthen their hand.
Politics isn’t easy but ‘burn it down because they’re not catering to me’ is not a responsible vote this year.
When will it be time? How do you plan on shaping dems? You’re repeating yourself here.
I don’t know what you’re even asking - how do I personally plan to shape the party? If I could wave a magic wand I would but obviously it’s something that is shaped by the collective and we all need to be engaged in the various areas we are passionate about.
This ‘cater to me or else’ sort of nihilism is the laziest sort of attitude and I get really tired of seeing it in liberal circles. I can tell you’re passionate and are probably very politically active in your own ways, but so many people seem to think that withholding their vote will sove the problem and that it then somehow absolves them of having to do anything else.
You’re wrong on quite a few things here.
How can a leftist meaninfully convince a liberal Capitalist party to move leftward, rather than continuing liberalism? Seriously speaking, if I am a leftist, and I want Leftist change, how do you think I should go about doing that?
It’s not nihilism, it’s not liberalism, and it’s not “cater to me or else,” that’s pure condescension. I am also not planning on witholding my vote, I want genuine leftist change.
Why does promising to vote for liberalism, a right wing ideology, help Leftists unless the DNC feels threatened by a lack of progressive support and thus concedes?
The moment Trump was defeated in 2020 liberal and moderates did exactly what they always do: demand priority over leftists and progressives in every policy disagreement and Biden was happy to oblige.
No. Moderate voters, liberal voters, the DNC, establishment Democrats and Biden will all reshape now or lose to Trump. Make a choice.
I’m sorry but this is basically the same argument that I got multiple others in this thread so instead of answering again, I’m going to ask you a question.
What exactly is y’alls game plan then? How do you think you’ll benefit by punishing Biden and helping get Trump elected?
Your question attempts to hold progressives and leftists to a different standard than moderates and liberals.
What is the game plan of moderates, liberals, establishment Democrats and Biden? How do they think they’ll benefit by refusing to make material compromises with leftists and progressives?
You told me this last fucking election and nothing has changed.
I lost my reproductive freedoms
I fear for my wife’s life whenever we have to travel out of state - she’s trans
Clarance fucking Thomas is threatening to undo gay marriage.
The democrats have done NOTHING for me. And instead i’m watching half of them cheerlead a fucking genocide of brown people in the middle east
How are they different from republicans? How is biden different than trump? He’s trying to pass trump’s immigration plan while letting Bibi murder his neighbors.
Nah fam. I’m officially giving up. People like you who refuse to hold democrats to account have made life worse for everyone.
I’m sorry but you are blaming the wrong people for all of this
no, no… i think they’re onto something
It’s clear y’all are trolls at this point
Except step one is repeated every. damn. time.
Its never time to reshape the Democratic Party. If the democrats win, it will be too early to fix the Democratic Party for millions of reasons. And four years pass and every campaign promise is ignored, and all of a sudden it’s back to 1. Beat the new threat to “democracy” 2. Fix the Democratic Party… ad nauseam forever.
We can’t do that if people don’t vote actual leftist in the primaries because “commies won’t win the general”.
Bc boomers have strangeholded our govt for decades. Its convenient that now that theyre dying off this is the shit we get to try and elect the actual genocidal maniac and not the dinosaur keeping to the same foreign policy the US has kept for 70 yrs in order to keep our other allies from thinking we will abandon them the way we did the Kurds or Ukraine.
It’s never too early to help shape the Democratic party, absolutely do it now. But it’s a long process and if you can’t see how it has changed in the last 20 years already I don’t know what to tell you. And beating Trump is priority #1 if we’re going to continue on that path.
Fuck that, pass electoral reform so people can vote 3rd party with no spoiler effect and leave these dinosaur political parties in the past where they belong.
Do you think it’ll be easier or harder to get electoral reform passed if Trump is elected?
I think that the threat of losing to trump is the most powerful leverage progressives and leftists have at getting actual reformation of the party, and this election is the democrats race to lose.
So right now everyone who is pissed at Biden or the democrats, should be letting their anger known and be as loud as possible about it
Agreed.
Either moderate and liberal voters along with establishment Democrats and Biden make a big pivot or this will go down in history as a lesson: do not fuck with labor.
We defeated Trump in 2020. Nothing changed and Biden spent his entire term catering to liberals and moderates.
Sorry if I am missing your point - did you think he’d cater to conservatives?
Lol! I expected him to make material compromises with the millions of progressives and leftists who held their nose and voted for him. The fact that you seem completely unaware of these factions Democrats depend on to win elections is just… a perfect example of how out of touch liberal and moderate voters are. They can’t win elections without our votes. They need to start acting like it.
Okay so you’re saying he isn’t liberal enough I guess. I am pretty far left myself and would of course love more but I would argue that he’s also gotten a lot of pretty great leftist stuff accomplished.
And while we should absolutely hold his feet to the fire to pull him further left, saying “earn my vote or else” with the ‘or else’ being Trump, is not a very practical threat. Like a cut off your nose to spite your face kind of stupid.
If you want to see the things you care about set back another four years OR MORE than sure, don’t vote for Biden this year.
Okay so you’re saying he isn’t liberal enough I guess. I am pretty far left myself and would of course love more but
I’m not trying to tell you what to call yourself but if you spend all your time and energy arguing against leftists instead of moderates and liberals what exactly makes you left? Call yourself whatever you like but your actions are indistinguishable from a moderate or a liberal.
I would argue that he’s also gotten a lot of pretty great leftist stuff accomplished.
🙄Oh please, do tell me what material leftist victory was made by Biden. A bunch of corporate handouts? Not leftist. Passing the IRA? That was the BBB stripped of everything leftists and progressives were excited about. Maybe you’re so delusional you think blocking a rail strike is a leftist victory. Or maybe you think shipping weapons to a country committing genocide is some kind of leftist victory. Or raising the defense budget. Or forcing federal workers back to the office. Or setting Yellen and Powell on a war path against American workers.
You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about.
If you want to see the things you care about set back another four years OR MORE than sure, don’t vote for Biden this year.
The stuff I care about was already held back four years with Biden.
Like a cut off your nose to spite your face kind of stupid.
Yeah I’ve heard this plenty. You realize this cuts both ways right? Moderate and liberal voters refusing to compromise with leftists and progressives is every bit the same. Why are you trying to hold progressives and leftists to a different standard?
I’m arguing with other leftists because I have hope that I can help them make the right choice strategically while countering the rampant rightwing disinfo which like it or not, that’s what you’re parroting.
Again, you’re indistinguishable from a moderate or a liberal. You talk like one, you act like one, you vote like one. Regardless of what you believe you’re not doing anything that would accomplish anything we’re fighting for.
How has Biden meaningfully moved America towards some form of worker ownership of the Means of Production, and away from Capitalist ownership of the Means of Production?
When will the Democrats move to the left? Will it be next election? What about the one after that? Why has this same line been tossed for decades, prevent fascism now, leftism later?
I ask this as a leftist that will probably hold my nose and vote for Biden: why on Earth do you imagine the DNC will ever move leftwards, instead of remaining liberal right-wingers?
And republicans and fascists and corporations and Wall Street… hmmm but he did almost cancel a lot of student debt, but actual trying to cancel most people’s student debt was “too high”. No cracking down on predatory lending or anything. Plenty of other countries have free college, but its just too damn hard in the worlds richest country, you know jack.
Earn the vote Biden.
Me when I don’t understand what the house and senate are.
He can’t do it because Congress is too divided because you didn’t fucking vote.
Who didn’t vote? What senate races were reasonably within reach that people didn’t show up for? Same question for the house.
f there’s a single bone in your body that cares about the lives of your trans friends you will too.
Hey hi, it’s me, your trans friend. And you need to put this energy towards protesting Biden instead of leftists. I honestly feel like you are low key getting trolled and missing the point?
Like, seriously, we all know “shithole countries” Trump would be worse on every single issue, including and especially Gaza. But it’s six months till the election, PLENTLY of time for a course change by Biden. Absolutely a second Trump term scares the 💩 out of me. So i appreciate where you are coming from, but until it’s November, I think pressing Dems and trusting leftists to do whats right day of is the most good y’all can do.
trusting leftists to do whats right
i can’t trust leftists because leftists are stupid. look how they lost italy, the leftists splintered and refused to work together because of petty shit which allowed the right including literal fascists to take over the government. this is the same type of dumb stuff that happens everywhere with leftists, because of their “holier than thou” attitude.
i will not leave the election’s outcome in the leftists’ hands because they always fuck it up when that’s the case. they always refuse to cooperate with the enemies of their enemy because they don’t see them as left enough, despite it being the only option to not have their long-term goals permanently blocked off, and the country always devolves into diet fascism afterwards. it has lost us many nations throughout history, so no thanks.
This is actually straight up revisionism, it was the Liberals who sided with fascists, rather than working with Leftists to stop the fascists, that directly allowed for Hitler and Mussolini to come to power.
I’m not sure what you mean by “the Liberals” but I’m not referring to pre-WW2. I’m referring to right now. The current state of Italy. The one where leftists had the government, and then completely screwed up in the face of a rising right-wing threat because they decided they don’t agree with some of the things the other leftists were doing.
Ah, fair. I am not as familiar with modern Italy, but it sounds like refusing to work together is a two-way street, though I would love to see an example of what you’re specifically referring to.
The easiest (although not best) example for Italy is the PM. The previous center-left politicians in office were by no means perfect PMs, but the left’s infighting and the ensuing breakup of the coalition of various left and center-left parties caused Draghi to resign, and the next (and current) PM is Giorgia Meloni who is an actual fascist who has on multiple occasions reminisced of the good old days with Mussolini in charge and a good economy. Nowadays with hindsight people miss the preceding leftist PMs and think they were actually pretty good after all, but it’s too late for that. The country has already started a tumble towards the right and it’d be extremely hard to get it out, especially considering that the left still is refusing to work together.
There were other factors, such as the left in Italy generally tending anti-Ukraine and the population’s concerns about immigration, as well as the right focusing a lot on anti-LGBTQ rhetoric/paranoia (Italy is a very catholic nation so this was an effective strategy), but the most important factor and the ultimate killing blow was the left breaking apart.
There’s definitely a lot more to it, than that. I’d have to research more, because historically it’s always the Liberals who refuse to work with Leftists against fascists.
Just like now with a bunch if liberals filling up my feed with vote blue no matter who bullshit.
Benjamin Netanyahu himself could be running as the democratic nominee and they’d tell me he’s better than trump.
He isn’t. Netanyahu and trump are two peas in a pod.
Italy isn’t real, it was made up by the House of Savoy to justify conquering adjacent city-states.
There were other factors, such as the left in Italy generally tending anti-Ukraine
Wait, what do you mean? So far I think I’ve only seen some leftists be against sending weapons (which is still a stupid position to take considering the situation), but nothing explicitly anti-Ukraine and absolutely not the majority. Did I miss something?
If moderates really don’t want trump to win so bad, maybe they should make some real commitments to policy changes that the left want, not just half baked, watered down “market based” solutions that get shredded to a skeleton in committee.
Moderates can scream their lungs out all they want, but talk is cheap, and if they want the left on side they should earn that and not act so entitled to their support. Trump is bad, he shouldn’t win, but why is it on the left to keep him from winning? Why is it never the moderates fault for failing to hold up their end of the coalition?
Let us not forget how much Trump hates environmental regulation. He will auction off America’s treasures for whoever sticks enough money in his pocket. Biden has done a pretty decent job of maintaining the old guard mentality of preservation and conservation (as imperfect as that may be).
I wish more people cared about the environment.
you guys just dont want to get it do you?
i dont care about making you feel better with your right wing democrat. go actually do something about trump if you care so much.
I hope the closer we get to the election the miss obvious this becomes to everybody.
