Maybe that’s not bad for firefox.
Maybe less money means less ridiculous side projects and just focus on delivering a good browser.
Algo the lack of google as financial support means they’ll rely more on donations, which would mean that they really need to focus on offering a good browser.
I’ll gladly donate to firefox if I would see they are really focusing on it.
I donate around 5 dollars to Wikipedia every month. Another 5 to Mozilla isn’t an issue for me.
… will you though?
I just signed up for monthly donations of 5 USD per month. 5.60 USD technically since I also opted to pay the transaction fees.
Suck it.
Present it. 😮
I have nothing to prove to you. Besides, even if I did present it, you wouldn’t believe it. Even if I presented it with doxxing information you would note it for future harassment campaigns and also claim you don’t believe it.
So… as I said previously… suck it.
5.60 USD to mozilla every month. Not much, but if everyone did it, they would be bigger than google and tell them to eat shit livestream.
Your dick dumbass. Not a copy of your fucking bank statement lmfao. Were my lips on my dick sucking emoji face not clear enough?
Ya’ll take yourselves way too seriously lol. I’m glad you contributed. I haven’t, besides hopefully spurring you on to, in which I’ll take some of the credit for it. So you’re welcome.
I think in the future I will try to donate like 10 dollars a month for free software that I use, including Firefox, KDE, Thunderbird, Wikipedia, Lemmy, etc.
I think it’s very important to support open source financially, because without it we would all be fucked by huge corporations. And I might sound overly anti-capitalist, but I think that most of them should be broken up.
If I had the money, an extra $5 or so would definitely be something I’d spend monthly on donating to Mozilla/Firefox.
If I had the money, an extra $N or so would definitely be something I’d spend monthly on X
I have donated in the past while still living in a third world country. I stopped when I realized how my donation was squandered.
I donate to lemmy and mastodon instances. As I do believe they are using my money for good things.
The moment that it’s possible to donate directly towards the development of firefox, there’s roughly 10€/yr with their name on it. As it stands however, Mozilla is not funding FF at all, but rather extracting money from the project.
Maybe less money means less ridiculous side projects
Like Rust?
I really hope that’s sarcastic, because Rust is one of the most valuable additions to the whole IT field in a good while.
Entire industries have been stuck on C/C++ for decades. Industries, which are normally extremely late to any form of modern software development, are now practically jolting to get Rust integrated into their toolchains.
Similarly, languages without runtimes allow for building libraries that can be called from other programming languages, which so far meant C/C++. That’s a big reason why many widely used open-source projects like OpenSSL, SQLite, OpenGL etc. are written in those.
Even if, for whatever reason, you think Rust is awful, getting a third language into the mix will allow many more people to build similar libraries, which is again really good for everyone.For userland code that basically fingerbangs every server on the web, some forced memory-safety might not be a bad idea
Mozilla (not Google) got rid of the side projects, increased the CEO’s salary, and laid off a bunch of employees during the pandemic. It basically got rid of the innovation that could have made Firefox a faster, more secure, and pleasant experience. Rust and Rust-based Servo, as a replacement for Gecko, were two of those side projects. These are the things Mozilla needs to invest in.
Also, I think Mozilla needs to ask the user upon install what the default search engine should be from a list of search engines including Google, Duck Duck Go, Bing, and Yahoo. Maybe the order of those could be arranged based on how much they’re able to finagle from the search engines.
The real monopoly is their control over Chrome. That’s what they should be forced to split from the company that owns the search engine. Development and design of Chrome should not and cannot be done by the company that runs the search engine and gets its revenue from ads.
Development and design of Chrome should not and cannot be done by the company that runs the search engine and gets its revenue from ads.
I’d go so far as to argue the exact same for development of: Operating systems, automotive, smartphones, residential fiber…
The ulterior motive is simply never in a user’s best interest when every function ultimately becomes part of the “influence towards the purchase of goods and services” funnel.
While I find your assertion inspiring and very worthy of consideration, I have to wonder what the incentive is to sustain Android development. Apple sells the hardware that goes with its OS(es), so they get the hardware revenue (not to mention the App Store and iCloud subscription revenues). They would have to start charging devices to use their operating system or something, and I have to wonder if that would be possible under open source licenses.
I would love an open, sustained, and even open source, secure operating system for phones that’s the target of app development. I think the Linux stack should should develop an NPR/PBS type ecosystem public funding of development (with maybe the corporate underwriting of those networks being equivalent to contributions from corporate employed developers to the open source code) and I’d love for it to be a real competitor in the smart phone market (knowing the Android stack modifies and sits on top of Linux).
I have to wonder what the incentive is to sustain Android development
Cuts from app purchases and in-app purchases. Of course, developers can implement their own payment gateways and distribute their apps in third party stores, but nobody would do this at risk of being removed from play store.
Google got rid of the side projects, increased the CEO’s salary, and laid off a bunch of employees during the pandemic.
How did Google do any of that? Wasn’t that all Mozilla Corp?
Major brain fart/typo, haha.
Not saying they did, if you’re paying for a thing, you a lot of control of that thing.
Maybe the order of those could be arranged based on how much they’re able to finagle from the search engines.
That’s the issue that caused this. Google was paying Mozilla to be the default search engine at the top of the list in Firefox and other browsers.
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Right now it’s already set as the default search engine and you have to work to change it to something else as I understand it. I’m proposing that no default is set and that the user is asked to select one upon first installing Firefox from an ordered list of search engines. If that’s already the case (it’s been a while since I installed Firefox from scratch), then I’d argue that’s fine. And it allows other search engines to contribute to be higher up in the rankings.
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I can’t think of anything that would replace the revenue that Google pays Mozilla that sustains the development salaries to hopefully keep Mozilla competitive and hopefully making it the best performing, convenient and private browser.
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The problem is that building a plain simple browser doesn’t pay.
Maybe less money means less ridiculous side projects
Like Firefox?
It really seemed like it’s been a bit of a side project those last few years…
They are throwing things at the wall hoping something sticks.
For some reason people don’t want Mozilla to make money or perhaps they assume browser development is lucrative.
For some reason people don’t want Mozilla to make money or perhaps they assume browser development is lucrative.
By their own account, it’s not meant to be lucrative.
"Corporation. Foundation. Not-for-profit.
Mozilla puts people over profit in everything we say, build and do. In fact, there’s a non-profit Foundation at the heart of our enterprise."
Straight from Mozilla’s About Us page for you. Maybe they ought to live up to their words and start focusing on making a solid browser that respects users’ privacy with the majority of their time, funding and energy, rather than squandering these assets on current tech hype nonsense that people don’t actually want.
You’re right of course, but you’re also wasting your breath.
In 2024 the business sociopaths have so many people so twisted and screwed up in the head that they can’t even CONCEIVE of the idea of a person or organization focused on delivering a product sustainably rather than “MONEY MONEY MONEY, NOM NOM NOM!” for eternity.
In reality it means they’ll have to focus more on monetization, which will create more enshittification and not less.
What they need is to focus on enterprise functionality and privacy services. Maybe they could even do some sort of consulting
Maybe you have noticed it, but they try to widem their portfolio with paid services in the last couple of years. They have seen it coming.
I pay for at least one of their new services.
true true. good point
Mozilla chose to waste most of it.
Right? I don’t need AI BS. I just want a solid browser.
But, but but, it’s AI!! It’ll solve
noneall of your problems!I kinda get why they (and other companies) have to try AI at the moment though.
It’s not what people claim it is, but it could end up being an essential tool for the modern world, and if they don’t invest in it early their business might end up getting left behind.
We’ve certainly seen companies fall because they’ve not tried to stay on the cutting edge before.
We’ve certainly seen companies fall because they’ve not tried to stay on the cutting edge before
Best example I can think of is Kodak and digital cameras. They invented it then sat on it until it was too late because they didn’t want to cut into their film scam.
Nokia. They were at the top before iPhone. They couldn’t catch up with smart phones at all.
I believe Intel will be another potential example, but we’ll see about that.
Sears. They got wrecked by the internet.
Sears had a massive mail order catalog. Easy to switch that to Internet, right? But they decided to focus on stores.
It’s quite unbelievable that it was literally right there. The logistics were like 60% solved for them already, the remaining 40% was just making sure the online content remained linked with inventory and fulfillment, and expanding that capacity.
“We think online shopping will be just a fad” - the unimaginable hubris…
I was refreshing myself on wiki. They launched prodigy, but it was too early for online shopping to be popular. So they probably got a bad taste for that kind of thing. A concept in venture capital is that it’s all about timing.
But is a bullshit generator even cutting edge in terms of web browsing? Feels like solutions without a problem.
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I still have a retail copy somewhere on a CD. I wonder if it’ll even load on a modern OS.
What do you mean, you don’t want an opt-out ad tracker?
Investors want AI BS that’s why.
What AI bullshit? I didn’t get the memo.
There’s no mention of adding AI to the browser. It’s just an AI platform or ecosystem for development.
Mozilla has a finite amount of money. If they’re (as far as I’m concerned) wasting it on AI nonsense, that’s less development funds that can go toward Firefox.
I don’t know. I think for them it’s an opportunity to draw more attention and investments. Especially now with how hot AI is at the moment.
I think people are overreacting a bit.
While ML does have legit uses in many specific cases, this whole “throw ‘AI’ into everything” hype/trend is just blockchain all over again. IMO, the ones who are overreacting are the ones swept up in the hype.
In that there is a finite amount of money, there is also a finite amount of development that can go on at once. If they just pile tons and tons of bodies on what you might call useful endeavors, it can lead to bloat and the right hand not knowing what the left is doing.
I hate to see AI (I suppose we mean specifically GPTs in this instance) trashed all the time, just because companies use it incorrectly. They shove it in every hole they can to hike the stock price. But it’s a great tool, that arguably needs more time in the oven, which has legitimate helpful uses. Especially in the context of a browser.
For example, in Arc Browser I can semantically search the page/article for anything and it will show me the location of the information I need (ever tried to find the recipe itself in an article about the recipe?). I can also do some obvious stuff, like summarize and translate sections, which I could do by copying it into a dedicated service, but it’s definitely much more convenient being built-in.
Would be much better if it ran locally off the NPU, but we are not there yet.Downvotes from the people who believe that all “AI” is an LLM/GPT that must be trained on the collective stolen works of all humanity and requires all of South America’s collective power supply for just a day’s worth of queries
No one is protesting machine learning.
Yeah, lots of people are.
The lemmy community “Fuck AI” literally has
A place for all those who loathe machine-learning
as a description.
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That’s cool. It also uses LLMs, I presume?
…compensating their CEO of all people doing good work in there
Maybe they can stop paying their CEO 7 million per year
Maybe they can stop fiddling around with A I.
I know many of us don’t really like AI stuff. But it is just a door opener - and Mozilla needs funding like any company.
The product we sell at our company also has AI features. So far AI got us to talk to many more customers. So far none of them bought the AI stuff - even if in my opinion it would provide productivity increases. For us AI is a net positive: it cost us 2 weeks of writing gluecode, didnt sell at all, opened many doors for selling the main product.
That CEO quit earlier this year.
Maybe they can stop paying the next CEO 7 million
Maybe that CEO will also quit, because other companies offer them a higher salary.
It’s so easy to say they should just pay their CEO less. I mean, I get it, it’s a ridiculous amount of money that no one needs. But few people, who are qualified for that job, will just do it out of the goodness of their hearts for a salary far below industry standards.
Oh noo.
So anyway
This shit right here is why we have capitalism and classes, peolle believing a ceo does something so special no one could possibly do it.
Shit might be true for things like software development, science stuff not some overpaid C level exec.
This is predicated on the assumption that a CEOs skill is directly related to their salary.
This may or may not be the case.
This may or may not be the case.
This is predicated on the assumption that people just give money away easily.
I mean, they do… the higher my pay goes the less actual work I do (thinking is not actual work). And I keep getting promoted.
It’s dumb as hell but the only answer I’ve come up with is maybe not everyone can do the “stupid monkey shit” (i.e. “Someone get this herd of retarded cats to do literally anything”).
I don’t think companies care. If you’re the CEO of Mozilla for a year without it imploding, you’re looking very experienced compared to some of the applicants that medium-sized Silicon Valley companies, like Dropbox, Evernote and such, will get.
And if Mozilla is only paying you $200k, they’ll consider it an absolute bargain to give you tenfold that.
But few people, who are qualified for that job
CEOs do nothing. They rake in millions, and hire advisors to tell them what to do
Literally the “consulting” industry. Making millions off of boneheaded C-suites who only know how to pay others to think for them.
Then go be a CEO
Need to be a nepo baby for that
So if there are CEOs who aren’t related to the board of directors, would that overturn your theory?
When did I say I want to be a parasite? I want to abolish CEOs, not become one of them
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What I primarily meant by that, is that you do need some knowledge about financials. Which isn’t hard to learn, but the group of people willing to learn about it has very little overlap with the people willing to do something out of the goodness of their heart.
I’m still waiting for evidence these CEOs do anything special… They get paid millions whether the companies they lead succeed or flounder
what the fuck could the CEO possibly do for a company that seems to just fucking zombie its way along, it does literally nothing and hasnt died, what could the CEO possibly be qualified for, it’s not like they’re gaining more market share from having a good product
They are the face of the company. If they are shit at communicating it will affect share prices which could end a company. They have to say the right things at the right times or they could potentially break laws by saying the wrong things.
There’s a lot of stuff they need to know and it’s not cheap to get that knowledge.
I love all the vague, ambiguous examples that say nothing.
I mean, the Intel CEO just literally quote the Bible… I guess you need a lot of education for that
Look, I understand you can’t get a high school dropout to do this job, but can they really justify earning 10000x more than other people in their companies? Are they 10000x more valuable??
I would imagine they can find a perfectly good CEO with something like a 500k/yr salary
Look, I understand you can’t get a high school dropout to do this job, but can they really justify earning 10000x more than other people in their companies? Are they 10000x more valuable??
Everyone here is talking past each other. There’s one crowd raging that CEOs do literally nothing, which is objectively untrue. When that is pointed out, people assume it to be an argument that these CEOs should be paid that much, which it’s not.
CEOs do things. If they’re non-shit, they’ll work significantly more hours than normal workers. No, that does absolutely not justify paying them magnitudes more. Their salaries are inflated, because publicly traded companies pay them that much.
Because while the effort a CEO puts in does not match the salary, the impact of their work does so more closely. As in, if they’re doing a bad job, the losses for the company will far exceed that salary.
More importantly, though, you want to keep one CEO for as long as possible. Even if their strategies are mediocre, constantly changing CEOs and therefore flipflopping between strategies is worse.
I can’t even tell you who the CEO is off the top of my head, if they’re the face of the company they’re doing a bad job
If they are shit at communicating it will affect share prices which could end a company. They have to say the right things at the right times or they could potentially break laws by saying the wrong things.
I notice, very glaringly, you didn’t mention a SINGLE thing about the company running efficiently, being profitable, producing something of value…
It’s not that the company could end if it doesn’t do well at what it does. It’s that the company could end if fickle, short-term focused asshats aren’t happy, and to keep them happy, you need a head fickle, short-term focused asshat at the helm.
God, I wish every company could just be private.
If that’s all there is, it sounds like you just need good legal and marketing department and someone who is attractive to deliver their script.
Is Mozilla even publicly traded?
Nope, they aren’t. The Mozilla Corporation, which does Firefox development and has the CEO position that everyone’s talking about, is a 100% subsidiary of the non-profit Mozilla Foundation, which is the organization that you can donate to.
i dont even fucking know who C suites at mozilla, i havent even googled their company in years to see if they even still exist. The only sign of life from this company is when i update my system and firefox also gets updated.
Also, it’s pretty cheap to get that knowledge, just don’t ever say anything that might lose you money.
Oh no, I’m sure there won’t be anyone else who would like to be CEO if they quit.
Solution: H1B visa CEO
Too expensive. Just get someone undocumented to do it for pennies, then threaten to deport them if they ask for a raise.
All it takes is one person
- Mozilla will take money from Microsoft
- Firefox gets Office 365, Exchange, and Azure AD integration
- Netflix partners with Microsoft for advanced HD and DRM
- Microsoft and Mozilla partner to deliver Microsoft-enhanced Firefox for Windows
- ActiveX 2.0
Microsoft is declared a monopoly (again). Firefox has to find new funding (again)
I had a good chuckle at how well that all came together.
I upvoted you but I wasn’t happy about it.
ActiveX 2.0
Every old ass exploit and C2 targeting internet explorer is gonna dig itself out of the grave lmao
If tech giants such as Google cannot be broken up, then their services should be required to be compatible and all data exportable to competitors. See the EFFʼs “Competitive Compatibility” concept. Buy a movie off Google’s YouTube but Google misbehaves? It must be exportable to a market competitor that you do support. Don’t like how Google handles your email? You should be able to switch your email address to a competitor just like you can change phone companies without losing your phone number.
Basically, if the US Federal government cannot discipline monopolies by breaking them up directly, they should break up the moats and walled gardens the monopolies built to keep customers locked in to maintain their monopolies. See Chokepoint Capitalism by Rebecca Giblin and Cory Doctorow.
I hope Mozilla put most of that Google money into index funds or something. At least it didn’t go into paying the developers.
I haven’t confirmed this but according to this
They didn’t
That… Is a weird link that doesn’t open
Revenue of Mozilla Corporation. Not Mozilla Foundation.
When I heard the news, my first though was a mix of “Oh. oh no…”, “yay! no vendor-lock-in”, and “OH, NO.”
My expectation for the future is that a crowd fundraiser like on Wikipedia (does anyone remember those?) will be on the way for Mozilla… there is no way they can survive a 80% drop in the budget gracefully.
Firefox; being open source as it is; is not in danger.
I wonder if German govt. funds Mozilla
something like the sovereign tech fund for gnome
tax money should improve public infrastructure and Firefox is digitally doing thatOthers will present themselves. Mozilla have been on a downtrend for years. I’ve heard of a couple of alternatives, but I don’t have the experience with any of them. If anyone knows any good Firefox alternatives, please let us know!
If by that you mean “some alt-right-adjacent bro will come up with a new browser that’s essentially reskinned Chromium with a crypto wallet duct-taped to it”, you’re probably right
Isnt that brave?
those already exist
It’s okay you can just say Brave
All good modern browsers are based either on firefox or chromium if I’m not terribly misinformed
I think Safari is WebKit.
Webkit is Chromium (or at least, Chromium is Webkit, since the inheritance goes in the other direction).
The only 1 browser engine that is a completely separate and independent codebase from Chrome is Firefox’s.
(1 aside from extremely niche/unusable stuff like Lynx)
Close. Chromium uses Blink which was originally a fork of WebKit. I have no idea how much they’ve diverged since then.
The fork was 11 years ago, so a lot. So much that they are considered different engines now.
fair enough, although I’m not sure that falls in the “good” category :P
This used to be the thought, but the trouble is, HTML is now such a vastly complex web of requirements, mixed with the unwritten rules set by Chrome, it’s doubtful another browser could push forward easily; especially without a major source of funding.
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Vivaldi is pretty alright.
And also based on chrome. That’s the thing that people seem to keep ignoring. Your browser options are Firefox or something based on chrome.
No one asked for something that wasn’t Chromium based here. It’s the open source community, that’s how it works, most of us are very happy to settle for just having some different maintainers. We weren’t ignoring it, it’s just not relevant in this particular post.
Well, given the people talking about it I’m not sure I’d agree that no one was asking or talking about finding something not chromium based.
A lot of people don’t like having a monoculture, Google driving the entire cadence for new feature development for the web, or having a privacy focused browser whose process is to try to delete the tracking from a not privacy focused browser.
pre-chromium Edge was too good to be true.
It was shit. Once Edge changed to Chromium it actually became a viable option and in my opinion made Chrome irrelevant in business environment.
Chromium browsers are good. I personally prefer Firefox, but Chromium is alright.
I suppose for me personally the question will always be: how good is it with adblocks? Especially on youtube as that’s where I spend a lot of my time. SponsorBlock on Firefox has been invaluable for me, not just blocking ads, but auto-skipping the whole “like, comment subscribe” and in-video ads etc.
It has Adblock Plus built in which is not the best, but still pretty alright. You can still install most regular chrome extensions though and should be able to get mostly the same experience you have now.
Built in ad block is decent, you can add extra filter lists the same way you can with ublock origin
That said, just install ublock origin and sponsorblock as an extension from the chrome store
Vivaldi is my favourite browser, made by decent people.
Also chromium
Forks are often dependent on the original unless the source just gave up.
Mozilla chose a stupid business model. 🤷
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It is shocking to me how many people on Lemmy hate Firefox
Although some people are Google fanbois or reactionary dumbasses, I think most of what you’re misinterpreting as “Firefox hate” is actually love for Firefox and hate for what Mozilla has done to it.
Most Firefox-critics’ feelings towards it are more like this:
Love the browser, hate the corpos desperately trying to fuck it up because that’s the cool thing to do to your software now days.
I remember building Phoenix from source when it was basically still an experiment to decouple it from the suite. Good times.
Yes. 😢
I don’t think people hate Firefox as much as people hate Mozilla and what they’re doing with Firefox.
I always got the opposite impression: people here love Firefox. But it seems that’s part of why they’re critical of its shortcomings.
At least for me, if I’m criticizing something, it probably means I care at least a little bit about whatever I’m criticizing. Not worth time talking about things I actually dislike.
Consider that many of the same people think of Arch as a viable daily driver distro for the everyman. Some folks are more accepting of jank than others.
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this does mystify me. only time I nearly dropped firefox was when they did the big change that broke add ons but firefox with the addons I like is the best browser for me. nothing they have done has been consequentially bad. philosophically maybe but the actual effect is not bad compared to any other options.
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oh yeah. duck duck go is for my firefox. duck duck go is another one with a lot of drama that amounts to nothing. have tried a few alts but went back.
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For the money they are (were I guess) handed to set that it’s clearly worth it.
Not disagreeing with you. I just want to point out that Google is probably deliberately “overpaying” on this Mozilla deal, because they want to keep Firefox afloat, because they don’t want to catch a court ruling that they are monopolizing the browser market too.
Dirty tricks with web browsers is the antitrust charge that actually caught Microsoft in the 90s.
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Only viable competitor is a bizarre thing to drop when browsers like Opera exist.
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its an emotional reaction. google has always been bad, them doing a bad thing is just business as usual. who cares
but when mozilla does something bad? mozilla is supposed to be the good guy! they betrayed us!
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its an emotional reaction, not a rational one. i know mozilla, despite its problems, is faaaar from being as bad as google
to be clear i don’t hate mozilla, i do hate google, and i feel like the hate mozilla gets is way overblown, even if their actions are disappointing
That’s why Mozilla Foundation shouldn’t have created Mozilla Corporation in first place.
Don’t you think they dabbled on stupid projects and acquired some companies like pocket precisely because just a browser wasn’t enough to pay the bills?
it’s not like they used the money to improve the fucking browser anyway
I sincerely hope that is what’s going to happen and Mozilla gets severely fucked over for how they have been running their shit. Break their business and rethink from scratch how we run and finance the development of one of the most important pieces of software around. Hint: You’re not going to be competitive with big tech by copying their practices, marketing “AI” bullshit and pocket and all that crap. You can’t compete with google there, they can always outspend you.
As a Linux user, such a break would also be very timely, now that we have survived the painful surgeries of systemd and wayland. Those problems are mostly fixed, so we need another dysfunctional troublemaker - Firefox it is!
But seriously: The official story is always that google gives Mozilla the money to be the default search engine. But really, they don’t need to care. Google needs Firefox so they can pretend they don’t have a browser monopoly. For similar reasons, google used to employed 10000s of people who were doing very much non-essential stuff that is entirely irrelevant for their business. They could have fired them all long ago, and massively increased their profitability. But those would have looked obscene and raises regulators’ attention. So just hiring a bunch of expensive engineers who build google chat 23.0 and whatever makes them appear more like a “normal” company.
