CAFE by GE for those who are wondering.
We are renovating our house including all new appliances. I have told my partner to make sure we get non smart appliances. This is why.
Yes I can setup a VLAN for it to be on but that’s not the point.
You didn’t buy an oven. You bought a node for someone else’s botnet.
Hanlon’s razor, but its interesting to imagine that some Russian, US, Israeli, Chinese, etc agents infiltrated management at appliance manufacturers and convinced them to make all their devices smart, just so they could build bigger botnets
Whenever someone designs or purchases a smart device, this is what they need to be told. Is it really worth the risk for potential harm?
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So basically you paid money to store someone else’s oven. How long before we are installing vending machines in our kitchens instead of fridge and stove.
Straight out of Unauthorized Bread from Doctorow
Here’s a link to the story for those interested.
That’s an awesome idea. I’ll have my engineers build it into our next product line.
Stole it from my character in “Shadows of Doubt”
Please say there isn’t a subscription
Stop! The MBAs can only get so erect
they’re using the Wi-fi radiation to cook your meals /s
Thats really, really dumb. I can understand maybe wanting the option of having your oven ping your phone when the timer goes off, but what could it possibly need internet access for in order to turn on the heating element and a fan for a set period of time??
I had a bakery/kiosk mix of shop, where I baked bread every morning for 13 years or so. There was a customer who questioned my oven, because she actually does not know if it really radiates. And how I can be this sure about it. Its a damn oven! Like one in every household, just a bit bigger. People are really this dumb. Besides, it wouldn’t be legal… oh man still upsets me. Not because of being accused for, but it upset me that people like her have the right to vote.
they’re using the Wi-fi radiation to cook your meals
You’re thinking of microwaves.
The microwave region extends from 1,000 to 300,000 MHz (or 30 cm to 1 mm wavelength).
Source: https://www.britannica.com/science/electromagnetic-radiation/Microwaves
2.4Ghz, and 5Ghz are microwaves. Your typical microwave oven operates at about 2.45GHz due to resonance frequency of water. 2.4Ghz wifi is literally a typical microwave’s neighbor.
The difference is sheer amount of power and shielding. Not the type of radiation.
The water resonance thing is a myth, AFAIK. Strong absorption is actually a bad thing for a microwave oven, because then it would only heat the surface. The way they work is effectively bouncing the radiation through a barely-absorbing dielectric thousands of times, to get the effect really even.
The frequency is probably just an easy one to build magnetrons for.
The frequency is probably just an easy one to build magnetrons for.
The real reason is that that range is reserved for consumer devices so that it doesn’t interfere with actual ISM sanctioned communications as enforced by the FCC. We just also decided to put wifi in the same range cause they’re stingy releasing frequencies for public use.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISM_radio_band#Frequency_allocations
But research was done on it cause of course it has been.
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/0031-9120/39/1/006
This article deals with the generation of microwaves in the oven and includes the operation of the magnetrons, waveguides and standing waves in resonant cavities. It then considers the absorption of microwaves by foods, discussing the dielectric relaxation of water, penetration depths of electromagnetic waves in matter and, in considering the possible chemical changes during the microwave heating, multi-photon ionization or dissociation.
So you’re likely right that it’s not water resonance, but chassis cavity resonance. I can’t say that I’ve read deeply into it. And thinking about it I remember hearing something about some of the high level stuff that I just read in relation to this article. I probably ran into it in passing and just failed to recall it. But to be frank, I’m okay just calling it voodoo wizardry in of itself. But I have to understand wireless communications stuff for my profession, and it’s well known that it’s basically the same range as wifi 2.4ghz/bluetooth/other consumer standards that sit in the same crowded space.
There’s several ISM bands, though, pretty evenly spaced. The 13.5MHz one is used for passive RF chips like on credit cards, for example. They’re skinny, but for purposes where bandwidth doesn’t matter they can be. For other purposes bandwidth is scarce enough there has to be tight regulation.
Actually high water absorption happens in mm wave bands up in the hundreds of GHz (and THz too, if we could make a decent transmitter). Those fucked up riot control devices that make your skin feel on fire work based on that principle, because the heat will only go deep enough to hit pain receptors. Presumably, they stop working if you get a water mixture of any kind on the window, too.
It may very well be. However, with how matter-of-factly you said it, some people might not think it’s a joke.
That could work if you amped the waves up and trapped them in a confined, isolated space, no?
Maybe if you could amp up the wattage by a 1000 fold, sure
We’re not trying to be efficient, we are trying to be innovative!
I for my part would rather like to use the microwave for Hi-Power WiFi (and you can hold a bag of popcorn into the datastream for nutrition too!)
Listen, the Behemoth probably wouldn’t even survive a shot from the wifiaser.
I’m not sure if that’s possible, but if, not in this size. You would probably need an oven in the size of an entire truck maybe? It probably needs lot of energy for both, isolating and transforming/amping the signal. At that point the power going in to transform the signal could be used more efficiently otherwise to achieve the same goal without Wi-fi (as those small microwaves proves it).
It doesn’t need it. That’s exactly the point.
Even though air frying doesn’t need Internet, the manufacturer is restricting that feature as a way to force you to set up the WiFi, so they can then slurp up all your data.
They’re literally holding the feature hostage, as motivation.
Is data on when I turn the oven on, and how long I run it for, even worthwhile? Or do you think it’s sniffing out other info from my network?
At the bare minimum, they’re going to use that data to figure out, on average, how much use it gets while under the warranty period. They’ll use that to further cut corners on the materials or other design considerations.
Is data on when I turn the oven on, and how long I run it for, even worthwhile?
They wouldn’t be holding you hostage for it if it wasn’t.
Nah. Corporations aren’t all knowing godlike beings. They are run by stupid people who make mistakes, just like us.
Some people just want to watch the world burn.
I’ve honestly come to the conclusion that some companies have management that actually believes its worth while to collect the most meaningless telemetry data, even after the ridiculous cost of bandwidth, database storage, hosting, etc. which all become more bonkers the larger the dataset. I’ve seen the cloud bills for actual useful data, I don’t want think about how much they must be paying AWS/Azure/GCP to host such worthless data. There’s no way its at all profitable to do so
Why the fuck can’t we make things hot without the internet? FFS
Fire: “I got you, bro.”
A fire is what you may get when a hacker decides to turn the oven on for you.
It’s like playing Zomboid, but you don’t actually have to break into the house to put your clothes in the oven and turn it on.
Closer to how the first Megaman Battle Network starts as the scenario cmnybo mentioned is exactly what happens.
That’s because air fryer.
There are no dumb air fryers, are there?
Mine doesn’t connect to anything AFAIK. Actually, maybe it has Bluetooth? I’ve never bothered with it, though.
Air fryer in this case just refers to the convection oven setting on the stove. It’s not a standalone air fryer.
But they told me I can just not connect it to the internet and it’ll be just like any dumb device.
Eventually these things will come with modems built in so you can’t even do that.
My APAP machine has a sim card and unless I am careful to not disable airplane mode every time I start it up, it will send all of my health data to company that I have signed no agreement with.
I explicitly declined to agree to the privacy policy of the company that sold it to me.
If I find my data in a breach, lawyers will be involved.
Hopefully you don’t live in the US where your insurance company can buy that data and use it to deny you coverage or raise your rates.
They already do it with cars why not CPAP machines.
Cars already do that with having their own cell connection that you can’t turn off. It’s dystopian.
I bought one of those ge induction ovens to swap out a gas one. The only smart feature I liked was the ability to turn my oven on to preheat from my phone. Guess what feature just doesn’t work no matter the tech support help i get with it.
I worked for a phone manufacturer a few years ago. We’d get callers who were referred to us by shitty IOT vendors who wanted to insist their buggy apps just didn’t work because our phone broke it and not because their crappy IOT “features” were clearly tossed together by lowest bidder contractors they stopped paying 2 years ago. The number of IOT devices I just referred the customer to the Google Play reviews and read them the first 5 reviews that all detail various bugs in the companion app was concerning to say the least
They are smart because they know how to spy on you without telling you.
My microwave is a 1977 Amanda Radarange. It can boil a cup of water in ⅕ of the time a modern microwave can.
Now granted, it has zero fancy settings and a simple number pad that does nothing but set how long you want the microwave to run.
But honestly, this simplicity is a large part of it’s charm. No connectivity needs, no features locked behind paywalls, no extraneous bullshit or never-used features. Just a tool that does only one thing, and does it exceptionally well.
I got a “retrowave” in mint green. It’s dumb, uses a turn dial to set the cook time, stands on little feet like it’s from Rocko’s Modern Life, and looks like it’s from the 50’s. Have a matching toaster and eventually want a matching fridge.
It’s been 4 years and no issues which is more than I can say about a lot of other new appliances we’ve gotten for the house.
For dumb appliances with a fun aesthetics look up 'retro (name of appliance here) and you’ll get all the brands who make stuff like that. It’s the only way I’ve been able to avoid smart garbage so far.
The fridge will likely operate far less efficiently than a modern fridge unless you have it rebuilt.
With that said, a rebuilt fridge - with a more efficient cooling system and better insulation and all seals redone, etc. - does not cost significantly more than a new midrange fridge.
Oh these are modern appliances with a retro aesthetic. Everything inside is all brand new including energy efficiency…just minus the smart features
Really!? That’s a bit of a life hack. Good to know.
Usually mass-produced is a fraction of the price of anything bespoke.
Well, most of the fridge is already there. You just need to disassemble, sandblast the metal and paint (if the paint is in poor condition), replace the insulation with closed-cell spray foam, replace the refrigeration system with a modern Freon-free system, reassemble and put new seals on.
An old fridge can be quite simple, structurally speaking. It’s in the 70s and 80s when fridges started getting compact, difficult to repair, and disposable.
Other than the frame, what components aren’t being replaced? I’ll admit my fridge knowledge is mostly theoretical.
That’s fine if you like the appearance of “retro” appliances, but that is certainly not the only way to avoid smart devices. Most microwaves, toasters, etc sold are not smart devices.
Eh, its a very easy way to avoid smart appliances and a surprising amount of people don’t know they exist.
If it’s not for you, that’s okay, but someone else might find it useful and maybe wants that aesthetic.
Does it let you control the power level at all? If it does then no issues. If it can’t, hardly an issue.
what is that thing wired into a 600v line??
Maybe just one without proper breakers?
Yes! The Amandas were the best.
Your preference for someone to have the name Amanda seems like a rather oddly specific kink…
I wonder if they will eventually make a toilet bowl to connect to the Internet. Can’t flush until you connects to the Internet just because…
There are toilets that analyse your waste and send the results to your doctor. They ID you by scanning your anus since everyone’s anus is unique. Maybe one day the results can be sent to your kitchen and your fridge and airfryer can deny you access to unhealthy foods when your toilet tells them to.
Jesús fucking christ some guy made the Adult Swim skit into a real product?
This wasn’t supposed to be real
And GenAI isn’t part of this. Not enough hype, no VC will fund it.
More likely to be bidets.
AI will analyse video of dirty bums and generate the exact pressure and aim required to get them clean.
For that to work some people have to get too much pressure. Your clean ass will have been built on the live lost to excessive bidet pressure.
You’re supposed to use water and your hand to wipe.
Some people are so gross
I use 2-3 squares of toilet paper to wipe and dry. I don’t want to run the electrical wires to hook up a fancy bidet with a hot air blower
Use your hand like a savage?
No thanks
Lol I hope you are right. Or else I will have to make sure the Internet is working before going to washroom.
This is from 10yrs ago. Adult Swim joke skit.
And no one took their idea to the market yet. Shame on those large companies
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99% of people couldn’t give less of a fuck. The only way we get out of this death spiral is with smart legislation.
Oh no. I don’t be needin’ no internet enabled legislation! Good, old fahsioned, airgapped legislation was good enough before, and it’s good enough today!
Yeah I would immediately return honestly, there are plenty other espresso makers that don’t require wifi
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This blender doesn’t actually make coffee. ☹️
Pfft maybe not the way you use it
They didn’t buy it. They bought a house that came with it.
Whose gonna pay the refund?
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Our GE Profile oven did the same. Of course the software is so shit, it tripped up connecting to the VLAN I set up and now it has air fry mode and no wifi.
Maybe try switching to airplane mode on your phone while trying to onboard the oven? I’m sure it’s too late for that.
It’s only a matter of time before corporate WANs like Amazon sidewalk and/or the ever decreasing cost of cellular modems and IOT contracts mean they won’t even ask anymore.
In the mean time, these things are usually programmed with minimal effort. I have to wonder if there’s an actual unlock process or if giving it a completely isolated subnet would satisfy the check.
It’s only a matter of time before corporate WANs like Amazon sidewalk and/or the ever decreasing cost of cellular modems and IOT contracts mean they won’t even ask anymore.
Then it’s time to heat up the soldering iron and disable the wireless connectivity in hardware.
which is great until you realize that if it cant connect to a server somewhere to download the latest Ad manifest it crashes the OvenOS and now your warranty is void AND you can’t bake a cake.
In that case it would be unusable in any remote area without cell service too.
doesn’t seem to have stopped them from locking functionality that does not require an internet conneciton behind an internet connection, so i don’t see why they would care.
At least an integrated modem wouldn’t set my local network at risk. They might still collect sensible data with microphones, cameras and share usage profiles etc. But from my perspective that’s at least technically decoupled from other devices.
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That’s a valid point indeed.
