- cross-posted to:
- technology@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- technology@beehaw.org
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I don’t know why some drama about a borked GPU install has been at the top of my feed for a week, and at this point I’m afraid to ask.
If you are interested there are essentially 3 problems:
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the GPU fiasco: Where they didn’t just bork a install. A small 2 man startup send them their (I think only or at least best) prototype for testing and even included the correct GPU to use it with in their packet. LTT for some reason tested it on a different one (obviously not working well there) and came to the devastating conclusion that NOBODY should ever buy this. Then instead of as requested sending it back they auctioned this prototype off at an event they hosted.
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the second problem that was also called out in the video published by gamers Nexus was a consistent pattern of publishing data errors in their reviews. And if such errors are caught, they would be inadequately handled. Maybe through a post under the video or by later replacing part of the video. If they caught an error before publishing they also often would just add a small onscreen text correction with an * instead of redoing that part. All problematic as many people will miss those corrections and thus be influenced by wrong data.
Those two points are especially problematic given the reach of LTT, since they are by far the largest tech YouTube channel. And thus influence a lot of people, especially beginners. Their initial response to these problems was also extremely bad.
- the third problem was a former employee coming forward with allegations of them being an extremely toxic place to work at. With sexual harassment, intense workload and so on.
Thank you, I spent so much time combing through posts and comments and your comment is the first time it has been succintly explained.
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I also don’t fully understand why people are so furious. Yes it’s some pretty serious alligations from Madison yes, and some dumb faults has happened from overworked stressed employees because of some bad company policies. Manny big companies have these issues at some point but you don’t hear about it because it’s handled internally or the company just slowly dissolves. LMG are at least open and a million times more transparent than I’ve seen many other companies be. Then own up to their mistakes now and are at least trying to fix things. Shutting down for a week is pretty drastic and for me it shows that they care.
It’s not owning up if you’ve been caught red-handed, denied any wrongdoing, and only made an apology video once your subs started tanking. At this point it just feels like damage control.
Monetized apology video with self promotion. That is also important.
TLDR: The LTT fan base has a culture of calling out bad actions by the company not because they hate them but because they hold them to standards.
A small company Billet Labs sent them a prototype to test. That prototype was designed for a 3000 series graphics card. LTT didn’t have that card at hand so they asked if it was ok to use a 4000 series card. Billet said they could try but it wasn’t designed for their card. LTT published a review of the prototype based on a scenario it wasn’t designed for and Linus told people it was a bad product. They later agreed to return it to Billet. They ended up auctioning it off at a convention (where some of Billet’s competition was).
Ultimately LTT paid an undisclosed amount to Billet. The actual damages of selling off a start ups only prototype (possibly to their competition) after agreeing to return it, after telling people not to buy a product (which was only a prototype) based on how it performed in a situation it wasn’t intended to be in is unmeasurable. They could have effectively destroyed years of work and killed the future of those people.
Linus said he didn’t use the correct card because it would have cost ~$800. The issue isn’t that he didn’t buy that correct card it’s that he didn’t decide to not publish a video on it if he couldn’t do it right.
On a podcast the other week Linus praised the LTT fans for not just agreeing with everything he does, creating a toxic positive feedback loop. This is them calling him out on his errors.
Yes other companies make these same terrible decisions. But their bad actions don’t justify LTT’s bad actions.
Minor correction, but Billet sent them a 3090; they lost it. It was found and returned eventually but yeah.
They threw shit at a small company by testing their product the wrong way.
I get that. It’s not cool. Very much not cool. But everyone makes mistakes or do some stupid shit like this at some point on their lives and should at least have a chance to make things right no?
I understand your point, but the issue is that they had to get an insane clash back from the community to start doing these changes. I mean, Gamer Nexus made a video calling them out.
That’s true. And I generally don’t agree with the practices that have happened. I just hope they’ll at least get their shit together and get better at treating their hard working employers. I’m not so much of a pitchfork and torch guy and generally hope for the good in people. LMG certainly got a slap in the face now and a wake-up call it must have been. I just hope it’s enough.
I’m not so much of a pitchfork and torch guy and generally hope for the good in people.
This is apparently rare on the internet considered what’s being said and done. While I criticised, I’m also hoping they just get the criticism and use it to improve, both the video quality and the working conditions. Both go intrinsically together, happier workers will produce better quality content, which in the end will be good to everyone.
People who are wishing for the death of LMG, remember these guys employ already >100 workers, many of them which have a passion for technology and probably are happy to work there.
So, get your pitchforks down and lets wait for the result of this downtime.
They did have a chance. Linus took the chance to respond by making excuses and deflecting blame. For fuck’s sake, he said they did not sell the prototype, they auctioned it off. That’s not even a valid excuse.
Everything you’re told in this thread + they put ads into their “apology” video
As I understand it, it’s not actually about this entirely. it’s that this has caused people to look into things and see that there is a long running history of poor content being pushed out due to issues in the workplace. The mishandling of the Prototype and the accusations by the employee are just extra icing on top of this already fucked up cake.
This isn’t about that specifically, but the gist of it is that they basically got a one-of-a kind prototype GPU water block from a boutique startup to review, and instead of reviewing it with the correct model GPU and sending it back as requested, they did their review on the wrong card, concluded it was crap, and then sold it at auction during their convention.
And GN calling them out on this and a pattern of getting many things wrong with Linus doubling down on the whole thing as a response.
And to make matters worse, insist that no amount of modification would justify buying that cooler ever. It’s literally covering your ears and muttering la-dee-da repeatedly.
The whole thing was terribly unprofessional but he is right an $800 water block is niche.
We investigated ourselves and found nothing wrong. The Home Depot is the same way and allows rapes and retaliation. HR is a scam. All they deserve is violence.
Ah yes calls for violence, definitely a level headed and appropriate response.
You’ll lose to the GOP who actually do it because you sit there and do nothing.
Wow you’re literally the walking definition of radicalized, edgelord teenager or boomer with lead poisoning?
Don’t you have capital to storm again there potato chip bandit? Would love to send some more of you emotional LARPers to jail
The bootlicker speaks. Go back to golfing Trumper.
Ew, someone generalizing my politics. Go check out my post history.
Thanks for being part of the problem, nut job.
Edit: and just in case I need to spell it out, it’s ACAB, BLM, LGBTQIA and sweeping progressive reform for life without direct provocation of violence for life, like it or not.
man thats some crazy parkour you did there
Says every blue voter who wonders why women lost their right to choose.
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I’m starting a new conspiracy that Linus knew all this was coming and that’s why he hired the new CEO. I have no facts but I said it on the internet so people will believe me.
Linus has a track record and proven history of doing/saying stupid shit. I think in this case, he recognizes that he’s just shit at his job and wants help. He most likely didn’t expect the Billet issue (no way he would have known Steve would have released a vid) and if he knew about Madison coming out, he’d have tried to prevent that sooner. Hiring a CEO won’t fix the Madison problem, as that event had already occurred.
He took the blame for it in the video because he was in charge when these things happened. I don’t think he’d do that if he whole point was to blame it on the new CEO.
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He didn’t deflect to the new CEO in the original comment either:
To my team (and my CEO’s team, but realistically I was at the helm for all of these errors, so I need to own it), I stressed the importance of diligence in our work because there are so many eyes on us. We are going through some growing pains - we’ve been very public about them in the interest of transparency - and it’s clear we have some work to do on internal processes and communication. We have already been doing a lot of work internally to clean up our processes, but these things take time. Rome wasn’t built in a day, but that’s no excuse for sloppiness.
No, he called a new CEO because he knows he’s way over his head for years now. He even spoke about retiring some years ago, that’s how much signs he was showing. The fact he got a new CEO to handle the corpo bs is just a hint that he prefers to mess around with the hardware and just doesn’t want to handle more management shit.
Managing a startup could be hard and stressful. But I couldn’t think Linus would go to this extend.
After this worker coming forward, I unsubscribed from all LMG channels.
Ah yes, the Tony Blair move
That’s a good conspiracy! I call dibs on the next one
I know you’re kinda joking, but I think there is some truth to that. I think he made the decision because he could not manage the whole thing alone, and the workplace environment Madison described could well be caused by general stress and mismanagement
I’ve been under huge amounts of stress and have been mismanaged, but it never turned me into a grabass bully.
systemic issues like this don’t just come from nowhere. likewise, they didn’t just appear, either. nor will they simply disappear now that they’ve been exposed or with some glib promise to “do better”.
workplace atmospheres like this take time to develop and… fester. From what Madison described, it’s been this what from, at least, the time she started, which means these behaviors, these patterns, were existing, likely for some time.
What Linus knew, when, etc. may important in a civil case, but it’s not to me— He failed at his job, and didn’t ask for help/hire help to fix the problems until faaaar too late. If it was this bad for Madison, it had to be at least as bad if not worse for others before her who simply did not (or could not) speak out, as well as other who are still there.
Systemic issues do not affect only one person, and they don’t appear out of nowhere. Expect more bad news and expect that any resolution/fixes will take time and major change. If you don’t see any major changes over a reasonable amount of time, don’t trust claims that they’re “working on it."
that fucking comment 💀
It’s great because of how serious that post is then there’s a totally tonally different killer joke lol
Should be pinned ngl
Wonder how many international and domestic workers they’ve contract rugpulled, since this will probably be the one that flies under the radar due to all the other issues.
Holy shit
This is Billet labs all over again, they’ll literally only do something if they’re publicly called out
Yeah, it’s called lack of ethical integrity.
It’s probably overwork, rather than a malicious lack of integrity. Guy left a to field empty and moved on with his day, well probably was sending 900 emails a day and can’t keep track. Sexual harassment in the workplace? Can’t think of that we have deadlines!
(downvote edit lol: not defending Linus, not defending the actions, or those involved in it all. Just pointing out that mistakes are made when overworked rather than tainting everyone at LMG with the unethical / lack of integrity brush)
I know this might be a controversial take. But people in professional settings are expected to fullfil the responsibilities they agree to take on, follow thru with promises, and to turn down the things they reasonably cannot be expected or can’t do. It’s called having professional ethics.
In some ethical frameworks, intention of action is not excusable. An act or absence of act that causes harm is immoral regardless of whether the harm was intended or not.
Yeah I mean things drop through the cracks. Humans is humans.
As a foreigner in the same city as LMG the work culture is to never say no, I get in to a bunch of professional trouble when saying no. So turning down work to make yourself less busy is hard for some here. I’m just suggesting that this may not be mallace and pure evil, the situation is a product of the work and office culture there. It would play out differently in different parts of the globe.
I never said it was malice. I said it was lack of ethics. They might be very good and nice people. But if in a professional setting they behave like this, they are unethical. If the whole industry behaves like this then the industry’s work culture is unethical. This is not rocket science. The tech sector is a toxic sludge of unprofessional pricks. The tech entertainment is worse. But that’s not excuse. There are professional and ethical tech entertainment companies in the space who don’t abuse their employees.
I am in the wrong thread man. My comments are purely based on the billet labs thing where this thread started, and those not directly involved with the sexual harassment being grouped in with the unethical lack of integrity brush.
That’s the interesting part. Linus wanted to make his yt channel a company. Created LMG with a loan and all. Cool. But that means that now the company, and by extension Linus himself as the owner, is morally responsible for all that happens within their walls. That’s also part of the initial ethical failure, I don’t mean they cause or are to blame all the time, but they’re responsible for dealing with it.
Linus might not have harassed anyone himself personally. But, if one of his employees harassed another of his employees, he is responsible. Worse, if he know and did basically nothing, then LMG neglected to act on its duty of care. Same reason why, when one employee goes in public to diss out and trash talk a competitor, then it’s as if it came out of Linus mouth, because it’s LMG speaking.
“But I was busy with emails” is not an excuse, or “I didn’t know”, isn’t either. Your company your responsibility.
Overwork is also one form of workplace abuse. It just makes the matters worse
This is the schedule that they themselves set though. It made sense a bit to create as much content as they could in the beginning when they were first starting out and growing their channel. But they’re extremely successful in this category and they don’t have to remain beholden to the YouTube algorithm to make money what with Floatplane and so on. They literally have the ability to slow down production, do reviews, and other content in a responsible way, and they haven’t.
That work load may have contributed to him not addressing or not properly handling the situation with Madison, but that is something he brought on himself. It shouldn’t have been an email to a single person. This isn’t some random startup with venture capital. Linus built a whole successful company. A company that should have both a PR team (who don’t let him get in his feelings with reactionary remarks without getting legal counsel first), and an HR team to handle things like this. It should literally never have gotten to this point.
Lack of ethical integrity happens when you’re more focused on quantity over quality.
People aren’t calling out the staff. They’re calling out the management.
I don’t know if Madison felt safe expressing all her concerns internally, so this might be the first time they realize the extent of the issues.
You should read the thread she posted. Half of it was about management telling her to stop whining when she brought up any of the misconducts against her.
Imagine reporting that someone was being inappropriate with you only to have that person come berate you. That’s levels of fucked up and goes radioactive when it’s your boss.
Possibly not even then. Gamer’s Nexus called them out in that video for several errors involving their testing, methodology, and results and the sheer amount of content being pushed out the door with little to no oversight and no real meaningful attempts to correct themselves to the public, using features that other YouTube channels don’t even have access to, and Linus responded by doubling down on the less important bits while not addressing any of the main points. The accountability, logical and scientifically unbiased testing, and their propensity to post information knowingly that is not true and make weak attempts to “correct” that info after millions of people have viewed the content. There doesn’t seem to be a plan to do anything. Linus and the new CEO have not addressed any changes to be made. They were also called out for essentially double dipping (reviewing products from companies they are actively promoting or have partnerships with while also reviewing those companies competition). That was also never addressed. Linus himself has an objectivity problem and that seems to have filtered down through the entire LMG as a whole.
Finally a normal safe corporate response rather than further digging a hole for themselves.
Naw, they’re gonna go back to playing Shovel Knight on one of the next WAN(ks) or so
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I’ll be amazed if he doesn’t fuck it up by eventually blowing up and deflect accusations on his podcast in the next 3 months or so. I’d (almost) give him a prize if he coils hold it up for this long.
Am I a complete dumbfuck idiot or Linus is trying to diverge/twist this whole shit flinging into a “We got bullied bois!” situation?
I honestly don’t see that in the post. It sounds like good old PR bullshit, a mask for “we totally didn’t know this was happening but now that the public knows we are investigating!”
Afaik this investigation part was started by the CEO, not Linus.
lol
It’s like watching a trainwreck in real time.
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Also, that meeting is exactly what I would expect from a good company. Somebody had an issue, or said they had an issue, and they made sure everyone was aware of the processes in place to address issues. If anything I think this audio clip is indemnifying of the culture.
I disagree. That meeting was apparently from right after when Madison left 2 yrs ago.
I think that’s the exact meeting you have after you fuck up, have an employee leave with cause to sue, and consult your external HR, who tells you to have that meeting.
Id believe it if they had more of those meetings over the last 2 years, and not just the one when they are trying to show that “no, no, thats not our culture! We had meeting!”
Additionally, maybe don’t start off with (and keep the tone throughout) that this is boring corporate mumbo jumbo blah blah. What a great way to get the people to continue the actions that got you there in the first place, and especially prove the further point to potential victims that you don’t give a fuck.
that is from when Madison initially left, that wasn’t a meeting that happened today
What a corporate answer that says, now that the public knows we suck I guess we need to address it.
They recently got a new CEO a month ago because Linus the owner realized he was unfit for that purpose. It should have been dealt with years ago but I wonder if some benefit of the doubt can be given here seeing as the company was in a state of transition and probably would of cleaned up the work culture in private.
Or not because Linus still owns the company and the buck stops at the absolute top. He put his friend in high positions so it would cause a uncomfortable position when someone who wasn’t his friend lower down the ladder were to speak out. He has also consistently showed toxic masculinity in the way he acts and has spread it within the fabric in the company,
I have no strong opinion one way or another, but please tell me if I’m being unfair here on either side here. I think the company can still clean itself up and has shown actions before it was publicly known to address it, and I also think the company has misogyny in it’s corporate structure and DNA which will constantly be problematic.
If they’re smart, they’ll realize they need to address these issues in order to exist as a company people want to work at going forward. It’s in their best interest to not appear as a toxic work environment.
What kind of answer would you rather have. I’m seriously asking what should the comment have been in order for you to be happy?
This, but maybe not after what we got from Linus to begin with. This is clearly damage control and also is probable detracting from what limus actually feels which is f*ck you I can do what I want and I don’t owe you anything.
It would start with acknowledging a problematic culture, and give details of initial resignations or sackings to help excise it.
Maybe after an actual investigation into these allegations. Taking things at face value and grabbing pitchforks has never worked
There is no way. Too many corp answers that were nothing but words have been published before for anyone to not be cynic about it.
To be honest, I can’t remember the last time I have read a statement that talked about bringing in third party investigators. Is that common for corporations?
It’s usually something agreed to in a settlement or in a power dynamic situation like Apple telling a supplier they want a third party audit. It also happens when you have no intention of ever publishing the findings. That they’re proactively doing it with the obvious obligation to publish what is found and the consequence of it is most def a show of positive character. I think ya boy Hanlon is right when it comes to leadership at LMG - never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
But how to make it better? Do you just want LMG to disappear and leave 100 employers jobless, because that’s not nice either.
Well, start acting on what you say and trust will come in time.
Based on the response above they’re trying to do exactly that now. So maybe wait and see?
Yes. This. Because something else will rise in LMG’s place. Because other companies will see what happened and say we cannot let that happen here, because we don’t want a salted desert where our offices are. Because we don’t want our company to be a synonym for a fallen tower.
If abuse of employees led to business collapses, then we wouldn’t have edifices like Ubisoft who swim in their lucre while still perpetuating sex abuse rings among the upper management who take their choice of hot office clerks.
A company of a hundred employees getting razed over a scandal would indeed serve to spare tens of thousands of jobs more and allow developers to develop in peace without getting harassed by their management.
Maybe an inclusion of the word sorry.
And wording it so it sounds like it was written by an actual human being that gives a shit and not a dressed out HR drone that only knows corpspeak.
This reads as it was written by ChatGPT.
That I can agre to. The word sorry bares some weight and to me it shows that you care even more than just doing damage control.
Unfortunately saying sorry is an admission of guilt. A sterile corporate response is the best they can do to appear impartial while the investigation goes ahead. The apologies may come later if there is truth to the allegations.
Saying sorry isn’t (legally) an admission of guilt in Canada
They tried that with the video, it didn’t work.
Maybe an inclusion of the word sorry.
yeah because we all know the internet is level headed and it won’t be twisted into a clear admission of guilt 5 nano seconds later…
Dude, crimes have been alleged. You do not say “sorry” in writing while a criminal investigation is looming.
Oh I’m fine with the answer. With the information I gathered that same day this is probably the best they can do now. I would like to know more info about this outside investigation.
I feel a good majority of people are just in the outrage phase and there’s literally no response that would have been good enough.
Speaking of sponsors, wonder who’s gonna want to work with LTT now
Every single one and more.
We’ve got Smile Makers and Goop lined up, stay tuned for our new channel.
Dbrand, apparently
Dbrand will probably still make fun of linus and mock them because of this whole thing
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This is likely to quickly become a problem.
My Pillow?
Linus just needs to miss the Denslow cup and play ball, and he’ll be just fine.
