I’m trying out Obsidian for taking notes, and this made me laugh.
Huh. Which one of them?
A lot of my personal dislike for VIM would be done away with if it just had a helpful common keys cheat sheet (basic cursor navigation, edit mode, exit with and without saving, etc) at the bottom of the editor window like Nano does.
Try nvim
Having the commands listed at the bottom by default is one thing i personally dislike about nano, because they take up space while being useless to someone knowing the commands (or at least knowing how to open the help in, which is what you can do in vim to achieve the cheat sheet). The alternative that vim uses, is to show the commands when starting the editor without opening a file.
is there not an option to turn them off??
This is the only reason I have any idea how to navigate nano.
Really, I’d just recommend using nano then. It’s installed basically anywhere you can find vim and works perfectly fine as a text editor! To use vim effectively it has a learning curve no matter what, so it’s not necessarily meant for everyone.
I understand where you’re coming from, but as a frequent user of vim I’d much rather have the additional line of text.
It should be default on, with a setting to turn it off for power users
They could even have one of the commands on the cheatsheet be to hide it, so anyone who doesn’t want it will immediately see how to turn it off.
That makes sense, I mean your monitor can only fit like six lines of text.
one of my favorite things about helix is how easily you can check the keybinds for certain actions - just space-? and then you can see a list of every command available (by description) and their keybinds, if they have one
Not to forget the buit in popup showing the shortcuts, similar to which-key, but built in
I think this is the most upvotes I’ve seen on a Lemmy post….
Lemmy seems to be the old nerdy internet of the 90s, prior to the enshittification
I’d say more like the early days of reddit, the hardcore enshittification started around 2012-2015 IMO. The old-school nerds are still at it on IRC, Newsgroups and so on.
Don’t forget mailing lists! LKML FTW
That’s why I like it. No BS, no ads, no commercials, no show-offs, etc. Just some people with a bit of free time share their knowledge and stories.
I do wish we have more vibrant non-tech communities, though.
I mean, it’s true.
I’ve been using linux pretty exclusively at home for almost 25 years now. Program. Script. Work in the shell a lot, and the other day I had to use vim and it took me a while to remember the basic commands. I’m a nano guy :\
If you feel like it definitely give it another go. Vim (or neovim) is just insanely good once you’ve developed the muscle memory for the keybinds.
It takes a bit of time and practice but it’s actually fairly user friendly once you understand how it works. (c for change, y for yank, p for paste, e for end, b for beginning etc.)I was a nano person for the longest time, was planning to try out vim but never did, until i saw a coworker using it and he explained a little about the vim “language” actually worked and how much you could do with it
With some encouragement from him and a week or two of reduced productivity i was able to do everything just as fast in vim as in nano, and it only got better from there, now i find any other editor slow and tiresome in comparison
If you want something that is quite a nice editor too but doesn’t require hundreds of lines of configuration, try helix. It also has nice help menus so it’s fast to learn. I’ve used vim since the 90’s and Emacs for many years, but nowadays I kinda just like hx how it just works with zero configuration for any programming language I need to work with.
Honestly, if you work in a shell a lot, learning vim is a great investment. You’re gonna fly through files editing them faster than with any IDE.
I also started off using nano. Have you tried Micro? It’s like nano on steroids and with good keybindings
At some point Nano added Ctrl+S for save. That’s all I needed. Its syntax highlighting is decent too.
ctrl w/o for save/save as are pretty easy to get used to tho
Nano, Pico and Micro? is this editor trying to !compensate for something?
+1 for micro. I install it on every server I administer, and alias it to nano. If you’re a nano user and haven’t tried micro, I highly recommend it. It’s like nano, but built this century, it feels fast and modern.
I’m with you on that. VIM is a good example of a tool that the deepness of the tool makes it aggravating to use for the 90% of simple use cases.
Unless you use VIM enough for the shortcuts to be second nature it is faster to install Nano, make the changes, and remove Nano than it is to use VIM.
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If you want to learn vim, try the command vimtutor in a terminal
Easy ESC ESC ESC ESC ESC ESC ESC ESC ESC :q! Or alternatively ESC :q!
Great idea for when you start in IT! Always had trouble first year in my apprenticeship when i had accidentally opened vim. Ask for first time and after 2 months not used.
Did someone already open a pull request?
I don’t mean to be all “BuT iT’s cLOseD SoURce” but you should give Logseq or Zettlr a try. They’re similar WYSIWYG markdown editors, but also FOSS. Zettlr also has vim keys.
Plus Obsidian is horrible at editing tables.
I just commented this elsewhere, but I personally feel that their reasons for being closed source are worse than actually just being closed source.
I was about to comment that their website also claims “legitimate interest” to create a personalised ad profile on me, before I realised that that is not the official Obsidian website. But yeah, the stated reasons are dumb.
They also want to be able to support their families by making money through the Obsidian application, which could be more difficult in an open source environment.
This is the only one that seems really legit to me. That and the other commenter that said open source is more work, which is probably true, and if you’re not getting benefit it could be a net loss.
Open source does not mean open license.
There’s nothing there that really strikes me as disingenuous or bad. If they wanna be closed source, they can be, for whatever reason(s) they want. Does it mean a number of people (me included) are less likely to use it? Yes. But outside of our bubble here, most people don’t care about open vs closed source software.
There’s nothing disingenuous about that? Did we read the same things?
Being closed source doesn’t fix any of the issues they noted.
I’d rather they just say “I’m ashamed of my code”.
- Open source doesn’t guarantee safety without specific (and expensive) third party audits.
This one is debatable. Without expert eyes, open source code doesn’t do much to guarantee safety. Expert eyes aren’t necessarily expensive, but for non-super-popular projects, they are hard to entice. Can you spot a cross site request forgery attack vector at a glance? Have you used open source software without checking for this specific attack vector in all relevant code? So, as stated, this is basically true.
- Open source doesn’t mean faster development. Code review often takes longer than development.
This is true. You need those experts from point one to check if contributed code introduces security vulnerabilities. Code is work^2. Work to write and work to review. (Also work to maintain, so work^3, but whatever.)
- Open source projects don’t last forever.
This seems false, but is phrased super oddly. I mean, nothing lasts forever, so sure, but open source code is essentially available for as long as someone is interested in it enough to preserve it, so I would generally disagree.
- Open source requires a lot of extra effort, and the developers would rather put that effort into the app itself.
This is unambiguously true. I maintain several fairly popular open source libraries, and they take work. I also see the benefit in maintaining them as open source projects, but that is my own discretion, as a fan of open source software. If I were more worried about profit, I could definitely see this as a barrier to releasing my code as open source, considering I need to pay those engineers for the work they do just maintaining the project as an open source project.
This is also not to be confused with a source-available project, where the source code is freely available, but not necessarily under an open source license, which can be much easier to maintain.
It’s extra work they don’t totally see the value in and they want to be able to sell their product? Those seem like pretty normal reasons not to maintain an open source project.
It is 5 minutes of work to use your source control tool, and have a read only view for other people.
Being open source doesn’t mean you have to accept PRs or pay for audits. It just means your source is… Open…
Even if you don’t accept PRs, you’ll get people who want you to. Having the source open will generate a good amount of support email that is about modifications to your code. People can’t help it.
Thanks for the suggestions, I’m actually checking a couple new editors out as i’m looking for an alternative to OneNote. Just started messing with this one, but i’m not sure if i’ll settle for it yet.
I’ve heard good things about anytype.io, but I havent had the chance to use it personally.
Also not a fan about the closed source thing, but I like about Obsidian that it’s all just markdown. If I ever need to ditch it, I can keep and use my existing files as they are.
Would this also be possible with Zettlr or Logseq?
Been using Logseq for six months, and yes. It’s all just .md and media files referenced by relative links.
This was an important factor the choice to use it. Having used several note taking applications / systems, getting your data ‘out’ in a painless fashion is the #1 concern.
Exactly, that and the mobile app. Having simple markdown files and ability to sync them with Syncthing are just too good.
I don’t know about Zettlr, but last I looked at Logseq it worked off markdown files similar to Obsidian.
That said, I felt Logseq wasn’t quite ready for prime time when I was doing my research a year or so ago. So I went with Obsidian and have been very happy with it.
Would love to but I’m not going to pay a subscription for sync (one time would be ok), or have my data on a random aws instance. And last time I checked there is no plugin for your own self defined sync storage like Nextcloud. Once there is, I’m having a go.
It’s just markdown. You should know how to use git, use it.
No.
You can use FolderSync to sync your .md dir to nextcloud. It suited me well because I use foldersync for other purposes, too
I may need to add, that I use Obsidian across Win/Linux/iOS/macOS via remotely save. the sync solution needs to be able to work on all platforms. Logseq doesn’t have mobile plugins yet and iOS makes filesystem access a pain.
there’s a git plugin which can sync with any git server
Thanks for the heads-up. I see that it has an auto-commit feature, that may be interesting, if it also works on iOS.
You can set it to automatically commit and push every x minutes and pull every time you start the app.
just saw after you replied :) but unfortunately that is only available on desktop.
I’ve got it running on Android as well if that’s what you’re looking for
There’s a table edit plug in that makes it easy. The gripe I have with it is not being able to right-justify numbers (or maybe I haven’t looked close enough)
I tumbled across Zettlr when I was looking at maybe replacing Zim for my homebrew TTRPG games at the table. I use DokuWiki online. I ran my Star Wars game through it. Pretty impressive.
Zettlr is a great program, but to recommend it while bashing Obsidians table editing seems interesting. I’ve never used Obsidian so I can’t say how good their implementation is, but I know I’ve struggled alot with the Zettlr tables…
Logseq has an Android app. Zettlr doesn’t.
Edit: I tested Logseq. It has the basic functionality down, so for many it might be great. For me, though, it doesn’t come close to what is possible with the plugins of Obsidian. So for now I’ll stick with Obsidian.
The Android app is horrible btw. If I had to guess it’s just a desktop web page scaled down and packaged in an app.
I would in theory prefer FOSS. But what is the situation with plugins and themes? Can I use obsidian plugins with any of those? If not, I’m probably not gonna switch.
Coming here to recommend Joplin, been using it for years and it’s a great note app, markdown + external editing supported, open source, CLI & GUI clients, encrypted… Does everything right!
Firstly Joplin is great note taking app and if that is all you want you really should go for it. I used it for years and was really happy.
But Obsidian is far more than just a note app. It like a Wikipedia page, you can add links within the text of your notes to another note. But they are also bi-directional, meaning you can see the incoming and outgoing links.
Making easy to use the related notes instead of just link to it. Sometimes you did not even think this note could use that note information and it shows you can connect them.
Not only that Dataview lets you live index and query your data. Letting me build a template and query that data dynamics.
That is a hilarious, yet useful test.
There’s a few different ways to write that command in vim, does it accept all of them?
No, I tried ZQ the other day, does not work
my disappointment is immesurable and my day is ruined.
I’m honestly not super familiar with vim. I tried :q! and it accepted it, what are some other ways?
:q :3
!
Ah, unfortunately it only asks you this question the first time you try it.
You appear to be in the wrong subreddit (sublemmy?). This is a community based around programmer humor. I recommend you go to the furry sublemmy instead. It is for this reason I have down voted your post today
I don’t get it. I was pretty much replying with a programming related answer, being “:q”. I only added my personal flair to it, being “:3”. And I only expanded after another person assumed me to be a furry as well.
If you want me gone because of that, you got to get your priorities out of the gutter, there ain’t none. And fix your stereotypes too. The other person at least replied humorously. You won’t get a “:3” from me. Good day!
Buddy where do you think furries get the money for fursuits? They are very expensive (or so I’ve heard) and lots of furries pay for their fursuits with high paying jobs like IT jobs
E37: No write since last change (add ! to override)
Average furry programmer
Halfway true :3 I’m only a professional programmer which is why I attend in professional work fashion like thigh highs and arm warmers instead of fursuits. I’m more the stereotypical femboy programmer. Pre-edit: am i really just average 3,:
Okay, you are a very cool and sweet femboy programmer :)
:wq will save and then exit, while :x will save only if the file has been modified and then exit, and then there’s ZZ that does the same as :x, plus there are probably others:-)
The question specifically asked for “the command to quit Vim without saving”
Which means none of those are valid? Since this is specifically “quit without saving”
This guy vims
They explicitly ask for the one that quits without saving, so I’d say :q! is the obvious choice
I agree that it’s the most obvious choice, but it also doesn’t work when there are hidden buffers open. :qa! and :cq should always work so they are arguably more correct
:!killall vim:quit!,:qa!,ZQAh, thanks for
ZQ. I only knewZZ, alternative to:x.
Vim is the program that can beep and ruin files.
I just noticed someone should try xkill if they get the chance. If that doesn’t work they should rephrase the question. That is all. This will be my last grand contribution for today. Have a nice Wednesday everyone :3
This is usually how I end up exiting vim without saving, at least if I’m honest about it.
Maybe one day I’ll get better at it. Nano has been plenty for me.
nano crew where you at
Here!
I hate terminal-based text editors
Nano seems quite user/idiot friendly
hopefully switching to micro
I made that switch a few months ago just so I could cut, copy and paste without having to lookup how to do it. it’s been great.
nano gang checking in.
However, I’ve been forced over time to remember “:wq” to get unstuck should vim randomly appear.
Alternatively, you can save a key and use
:x(And:q!to quit without saving)Yeah, that’s such a Vim user thing to say :P
:up|cqto save a write cycle and signal an error to whatever opened Vim.How do u learn this voodoo
20 years of software engineering and you too will have a 10-20% chance of knowing how to exit vim.
I’ve done 35 years, but the first 25 years on the dark side M$.
i’ve only ever used nano in the early stages of a gentoo install, when it’s too early to install vim and import my dot files 😈
I personally like nano but it’s what I used first. So I learned the commands. Vim I still forget Everytime.
I like nano because it has worked any time I needed it. I don’t dislike nano because I’m not good enough at Linux to have ever run into its limitations
It’s hard to hate
nano, but IMHO there also isn’t anything to like in particular either. It’s basically a TUI notepad. It’s there, it lets people edit files… and that’s pretty much all there is to it.nano is just… There when you need a text editor for something. Simple and purposeful
It has syntax highlighting and mouse support.
You can use nano without having to read anything about nano. That might be the only thing that is better about it than vim, but it’s a damn important thing.
I have zero patience when trying to make small adjustments to files, which is what my command line text editor should be for. Nano just has everything at the bottom in case you forget (I do, frequently) so the workflow is ridiculously streamlined for me
Absolutely. It also has whole-line cut/uncut which is a godsend when working with config files
Ironically, that’s like the one thing I’ve learned to do in Vim.
Because it’s easy, dd to delete a line and p to paste it somewhere else.
yy to copy, dd to cut, p to paste. Need to move 5 lines at once? No problem, move to the first line and use d5d, and p to paste it. Vim gets a bad rap for being confusing, but it’s so fast to move text around once you get the hang of it.
Personally I’d be somewhat nervous using
ddto edit parts of a text file, but you do you :)
it’s basically a TUI notepad. It’s there, it does one job and that’s all there is to it
That’s what the people who like it like about it.
That’s it’s job
What else is there for it to do?
I mean, why compare it with vim at all then. Apples and oranges…
Yeah it literally follows the UNIX philosophy
Forget KISS, amirite.
% of the time I’m using nano to edit something in the terminal, and it’s usually something really minor. I’m using GUIs for the majority of my computing anyway, so if I need some robust text editing, I’ve got a bunch of easier-to-learn, easier-to-use options available, and that’s totally ignoring things like awk, grep, sed, etc.My god, what is this 100 image…
Pico gang reporting in.
Proudly, first thing I install on Termux.
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It just makes a lot of stuff way easier once you know how to use it. Switching out a word for another: two button-presses, duplicating a line: three presses, deleting 500 consecutive lines: five presses
What if I want to undo my life’s mistakes.
Church of Emacs is always there ;)
How do we work this? Do we alternate between trying to ruin people’s lives with elisp and chasing the perfect .vimrc or lua - config? Maybe grab some bytes from /dev/urandom and send them to the editor whose first letter comes up first? What about holidays?
I’m gonna go with yes 😁
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I think if you just need to edit a config file once in a while, nano is great, but if you’re writing substantial amounts of code, you’ll find vim a lot more capable.
As long as you’re not a filthy emacs user, we can get along
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Emacs is basically a lisp interpreter packaged with a suite of “example” utilities, like a text editor. It’s one of the two historical editors used as terminal IDEs, along with vim. Emacs tends to take a more batteries, kitchen sink, web browser, games, IRC client, etc-included approach. It can seriously be closer to an OS in functionality.
You can also copy paste by manually copying text by hand, would call that a valid alternative to Ctrl-C/V?
Vim really is an IDE, not a text editor. It’s usable as an editor but overkill.
Nano serves a difference purpose. It’s like telling someone on a bike that a mustang is better.
So like Word vs Notepad?
Not really, or that doesn’t feel right to my. Word and notepad basically still do the same thing except for that word lets you add style.
Like a manual vs an automatic car, maybe?
Word is a WYSIWYG editor. We don’t talk about it much these days because it’s just how things are done, but it took a long time for the industry to come up with a way to display text on screen with rich formatting and have it come out the same way in print. There was a lot of buzz around it in the late 80s and early 90s.
Word solves a completely different problem than an IDE. Notepad is a raw, minimal tool that could be built on for either WYSIWYG or an IDE.
More like Visual Studio Vs Notepad
Nano is for those that occasionally edit text files from a terminal.
Vim is for those who make a living out of it.
There’s a guy on Youtube who does programming language tutorials/demonstrations. Like he starts out with C++ and in one hour you’re at object inheritance, crash courses I guess is the term for them.
He did one video that was as much a Vim tutorial as a tutorial for this language. “Press 3k, then enter, then i, and type “std::out(“whatever C syntax is”)” and then hit escape and…”
For teaching something like a little bit of Python or a little bit of Bash or whatever, I’d rather use Nano, because you can learn how to use it in seconds. Vim is an amazing tool but lord don’t try to cram a Vim tutorial into another already technical tutorial.
Vim is absolutely not an IDE. It has no integrations with any language. It’s just a powerful text editor. You can add language plugins and configure it to be an IDE.
No offense intended here - But why is this being upvoted?
vim absolutely is an IDE if that is how you want to use it. Syntax highlighting, linter, language specific autocomplete, integrated sed/regex. And much, much more.
Syntax highlighting, linting, and language specific autocomplete are features supported by plugins and scripts. Plain, simple vim is a powerful extensible text editor. The extensibility makes it easy to turn into an IDE.
There’s syntax highlighting by default in vim though.
Yeah, there is a generic syntax highlighting scheme. I had forgotten because it’s not very good for some languages, I’d replaced it with a LSP-based implementation years ago.
ladies please, you’re all beautiful
my car is absolutely a boat if you put a boat motor on the back of it and waterproof it
“You see here my car has positions for all the parts of a boat so it’s easily made into a boat and it’s already waterproof but it’s just a normal car”
I don’t know that’s a fair anology. Vim does what a IDE can do without almost any setup with LazyVim and Lunar Vim and a bunch other prebaked setups. Instead of writing your vscode config in JSON or using a GUI, you can use lua. It’s more like turning car into a track car or something where you’re already a mechanic
You can’t run and debug things in vim, can you?
The things you’re describing are still just text editor features. An IDE generally has specific functionality for building, testing, packaging, debugging etc. for one or more programming languages/environments.
(Which vim can do if configured, I don’t really have an opinion about that tbh)
That’s what most IDEs are. VS Code doesn’t have any native integrations. Everything is provided by plugins. The default plugins that ship with VS Code can be disabled, and you’ll have just a powerful text editor.
(To do this, go to Extensions tab, click the filter icon, select “Built-in”, and go down the list to disable all of them. Or just build a version with no built-in plugins.)
Ah, so Code is the same as Vim if… I go out of my way to either disable things on one or install things on the other.
Or… Or… Code is an IDE (that you can strip down) and Vim is a text editor (that you can strip up).
We don’t stop calling a computer one just because it can still boot without most of its modules. The default presentation matters.
Sure, and VSCode without any plugins is a text editor, not an IDE.
In that case every IDE is “just a text editor” because basically every IDE is built around modularity in this same way. This is just nitpicking over what is preinstalled.
IDEs are designed to support a software development workload. A text editor is designed to edit text files.
Eclipse, visual studio, pycharm, idea… Those are full blown IDEs. They come with all the extras. All the text editors that can become IDEs have extensions or plugins that enable what these other actual IDE do natively.
Nowadays using vscode to debug a running program is common, but that was something only restricted to full blown IDEs some years ago, I’d say that vscode is lightweight IDE that can be expanded, but vim is a text editor first and foremost. You can’t really debug code in vim AFAIK, the most you get is syntax highlighting, linting, automatic whitespace removal and auto formatting? Not sure about the last one.
It literally has a built in scripting language.
So it’s an IDE for vimscript…? No.
You’re not a normal text editor if you have a built in scripting language.
I’m not a text editor. But anyway, would you call a shell script that invokes
python.exe $1a Python IDE? Why would you? Vim isn’t designed to facilitate the use of vimscript, vimscript is just an extensibility feature of Vim.
Yea, vim really isn’t anything near how useful emacs is.
emacs is solely for watching the text version of Star Wars and you know it
Emacs really is powerful, all it needs now is a decent text editor.
It has one. It’s called evil-mode.
Not at all what I meant. It’s just, out of the box, a powerful text editor that can be configured and built on if desired. If you want it to be more than a text editor, you can easily make it so.
Eh. Both are good choices. I prefer vim for my workflows - I like the terminal.
ETA: Will have to give Emacs another go though at some point.
Like I said, Vim can be made into an IDE by adding and configuring plugins. Basic barebones vim is designed to be a powerful, extensible text editor, not an IDE.
It’s designed to be an extended vi clone above anything else.
For the pedants, I hope y’all can at least agree that lunarvim is an IDE:
(Note, a comment saying it’s a “bad IDE” doesn’t make it not an IDE)
In case of a house fire, I’d only escape with two things: my cat and my .vimrc
Why do you nor have a backup of that .vimrc?
I guess it depends on if you’re the type of person who sees VSCode as an IDE or just a text editor.
Vim is effectively the same way.
If you edit files a lot vim is worth its weight in gold. Nano makes me want to kill myself as everything takes so much longer.
Nano is perfectly sufficient for a very rare edit.
Vim absolutely chews through anything you throw at it. Lots of times we need data formated or lots of SQL queries and I’m the go to guy because I understand vim macros.
Especially if you have any form of RSI.
I wonder if it would be possible to make a user accessable way to expose similar power to the common user.
I never get the need to use a mechanical pencil and graphite pencils exists
I’ll level with you: I’m kind of a moron.
If my command line text editor has its own bespoke integrated command line, then science has gone too far and we need to stop lmao
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It’s cool. We’ll just write a lua plugin to extend science so that we can go too far enough.
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Yet many people prefer mechanical pencils. Are you against choice? What is there to get or “need”?
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“Relative”? 🤨
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I don’t understand the need for Ctrl-C/V, when manually copying the text exists. I know it’s snarky, but that’s the level of difference we’re talking about here. Or imagine, to delete a line, someone Right Arrows 50 times, then backspaces 50 times, instead of using the shortcut.
Oh man, that’s awesome. Aren’t there a couple ways to do that though?
they accept :q! but I haven’t checked anything else yet
According to Stack Overflow, there is also:
- :cq (quit without writing and return non-zero exit code)
- ZQ (quit without writing from normal mode)
I actually knew about ZQ :)
but in what case would you ever need :cq ? I’m curious what’s the idea behind that
Edit: I checked, neither work for obsidian verification, including :cq!
disappointing :c
It’s useful when vim is being run from a different program or script.
For example, if I run
p4 changeto create a new Perforce changelist it will open up my editor (which I have set to vim) so that I can enter the CL description and other fields. If I realize I don’t actually actually want to create the CL yet I can use :cq to quit with an error so thatp4knows to abort.I also have a script I use for diffing a list of file pairs. It runs vimdiff on the first pair of files then if I exit with :qa it will move on to the next pair of files. But if I exit with :cq it will just abort and skip all of the remaining file pairs.
