But the stadium will bring so much economic benefit to the city! Well get at least 4 new fast food restaurants hiring only minimum wage workers, and a small boost in hotel revenue!
Transit won’t bring any return on investment. Only poor people use transit and they don’t have any money. And if someone who has a car does use transit that’s hurting the economy! Think of the poor gas station owners and car dealers!
/S /S /S /S /S
This is actually pretty accurate to how big oil, auto manufacturers and sports owners who are friends could operate.
I live in Bristol. Our two nearest arenas which can host large (10,000+ capacity) concerts are in Cardiff and Birmingham.
We are the only major city in England that lacks an arena. And our council is far more concerned with letting property developers flood the market with luxury office blocks and student apartments.
Don’t forget the companies that clean up mess and repair damages that sports fans make. They need some love (and loads of money) too.
And people think that we are going to run out of fossil fuel or something. I guess they don’t know that dinosaurs die every day and we can collect the fossil fuel from them?
I agree with the sentiment of this post, but these numbers are silly.
$150m would barely build a bus fleet transit system, nevermind the maintenance, operating, and personnel costs for the fleet (and completely forget about actual long term transit solutions like rail at that cost figure).
And $1b stadiums are outliers – our city got into controversy over our stadium which costed around $250m. Not many municipalities are loaded enough to be getting into billion dollar capital expenditure decisions.
you could absolutely build 1 or 2 decent rapid bus lines for that money, as well as pay for a few years of operations. but…. 1 or 2 rapid bus lines, while nice, certainly doesn’t make for a comprehensive system.
Oh, someone lives in Québec city lmao!!
I was going to say Alberta, lol
Edit: I know the $1.22 billion is just for a new arena in Calgary, but it’s a big part of it for sure
I thought it was Nashville.
Bread & Circus!
The Cincinnati streetcar cost almost exactly $150m and it serves like 0.5% of the metro population. It runs a 3.6 mile loop, that’s just over a 1.5 mile walk from one end to the other. I can walk it in 20 minutes.
Don’t get me wrong, I agree with the sentiment of the post. We need to invest in public transit. Where I live there are zero non-car options. But don’t pretend you’re building comprehensive public transit for $150m.
It runs a 3.6 mile loop, that’s just over a 1.5 mile walk from one end to the other. I can walk it in 20 minute
Well fine if you want to brag I guess but most Midwesterners would need defibrillators and a fast food chain or two along the way to make this trek, and it ain’t taking 20min.
Okay you’re not wrong about most people. I saw a post in a couch to 5k thread recently about getting to running 14 minute miles. I can walk 13 minute miles. But the I-275 loop that circles Cincinnati is almost 90 miles around. The streetcar covering less than two miles of the city is still not helping the common person.
CAD 180 millions for a 35km long express bus lane where I live…
Where’s that? I’ve seen in Calgary it’s 280 million per km for their new green line
New roads: expensive
Repurposing roads: not as expensive
150m can do a whole bunch when you use properly rolled out busses, with their own lanes (and you can initially paint these if the budget is low). People driving their car on the bus lanes will nicely generate additional tax income (fines) and if the busses are good, the people will come.
Even in the Netherlands, where we have really good trains on even a European scale, we still have long-distance busses (comfy ones, for 1-2hr trips) and regional busses (still comfy, but those are 20-30 min trips). Custom infra doesn’t always cut it, especially when repurposing existing infra will serve the job just fine.
I’ve lived in the NL, we just have a different reality. Just the other side of my city is an hour away in a car with no traffic. Regional cities are 1.5-3 hrs away. There are some bus lines in the middle of the city but most of our metro area has zero non-car options.
If you’re in Cincy there’s Metro bus, and TANK bus in northern Kentucky comes up into Cincy as well. You can also buy combo passes that let you ride both. It’s admittedly a very lacking public transit system, especially after cuts made in the Covid era, but it’s there and gets me to and from work.
Unfortunately the doomed underground rail system has such an infamous reputation that the thought of getting such a system put in place these days is a far fetched dream.
I have a Cincinnati address but I’m in Clermont county just outside of Anderson, in the 45255 zip. There aren’t buses near my house, or sidewalks, or bike lanes. Just a ditch on the side of the road and 40+mph traffic with lots of construction trucks.
City street cars seem to be a waste of money now but more trains would be nice. They never invest enough in it.
I live in Atlanta. We have a shitty street car and a shitty train system. They don’t go to enough places to be useful most of the time. But if they got the same kind of funding our stadiums got it would be crazy good. I could ride the train instead of driving to most places if they just expanded to some more parts of the city.
Are streetcars like trams? Because over here I love taking the tram in largerish cities like Ghent, they’re like busses but faster.
Yes, street cars or trolleys are essentially trams. Small, slow, go on rails in the pavement alongside cars.
Yes, street cars or trolleys are essentially trams. Small, slow, go on rails in the pavement alongside cars.
Nowadays trams can go pretty fast. Plus, a better aligned railway and a better suspension means that they became.uch more quiet.
I just hope that someday we will see more of those used in large cities
Hopefully but I’m doubtful. My city (st Louis) has burned millions in a trash can of trying to get a singular, less than 5 mile, trolley working for more than a month and failed miserably. It’s been a major embarrassment that they’ve been entirely capable of getting it to run reliably down one mostly flat, straight street.
I just want some trails…
I wish my city council would spend money on a stadium…
"Oh BTW, we gave the stadium to some wealthy dude, and he’ll keep all of the money the stadium makes. Don’t worry though, your tax dollars will pay for the upkeep.
Which one gets the votes?
Seattle voted down T Mobile park twice and the city still found a way to push it through lol
I don’t know what sport uses that but no mayor would want to be known as the one that forced the Seawolves out of town
Just because it’s an easy attack vector
I get it but… The fact that a team changes town is such an insane concept to me. I don’t know the SeaWolves, but they are probably called Seattle SeaWolves, right? So they carry the name of the city.
Where I’m from (Germany) that team would be dead instantly in the eyes of the fans. If f. ex. Victoria Berlin renamed itself to FC Berlin, the fans would find it weird but probably go along. 7f the moved to Magdeburg and are now Victoria Berlin but not in Berlin they would lose their fans. And wouldn’t gain Magdeburger Fans.
If you’re interested I would recommend you to check out the recent rise of FC Union Berlin. They’ve risen to the first division about 5 years ago and still play in a pretty old and basic stadium. They display of the current goals is still done by changing boards with numbers on them through a window.
And they managed to play in the champions League despite having an old stadium. Sadly they played their European games in the bigger Olympia stadium. I wish they would have hosted Real Madrid in the old forestry (name of the stadium “die Alte Försterei”).
I watch Bundesliga :)
In London, Ontario, the city gave the transit commission $350M to spend on a new transit overhaul called Bus Rapid Transit (BRT). It was the best plan possible for our city as our streets are too narrow to accommodate light rail and we sit on swampland at a low altitude above sea level which prevents a subway from being built. All the commission had to do was pour concrete for new bus pads and widen a couple of streets to add in a dedicated bus lane.
They blew half the money on consultations, construction fuck ups, and removal of fuck ups in 2022. They never finished BRT, bought themselves a brand new HQ at a cost of $120M, and now in 2023, they’re saying they’re $175M overbudget on BRT.
No one in our city is talking about this.
A typical stadium that costs that much generates profits of like $100-200M per year. So if the city isn’t dumb enough to pay that much for it and not get a sizeable portion of that income, they can fund a comprehensive public transit system with that new money without going to debt.
Is this meme reporting live from Las Vegas, Nevada?
Because putting a stupid underground concrete bendy-straw full of manual-driving Teslas instead of…a subway system, and building like 8 more stadiums that shut down traffic and give us nothing but $600 concert tickets on Ticketmaster …is totally this city’s jam right now.
The problem in my town is the homeless people ruining the trails and parks. I feel bad for them but they will fill a park with tents and shit on the pavement
Where would you have them go, exactly?
And now you’ve found the problem. There are many non profits helping them and making sure they aren’t starving but many of these people come from other places and have serious mental health issues.
There is habitat for humanity which is building houses with the idea that having a shelter and a shower can get people off the street. Its a cool project.
Commending your humanity, friend. It’s hard to see the problems that people like the homeless can cause in our day to day and not feel reproachful or angry. Even if I know the reason, and can empathize with the situation, it doesn’t make the interactions any less jarring or frustrating when they’re clearly in need or more assistance than they’re getting and that lack is harming them AND the community they need to rely on for survival.
Well I do my best to help them if I can. I sometimes volunteer in soup kitchens and donate to the orgs that help them.
You must understand though, some of these people have been homeless and hopeless for so long that they don’t really want to be helped. My city has very cold weather once in a while and before it happens the police are always out trying to talk people into going to a shelter. Each shelter is either a church, city building or business that is trying to keep people from literally freezing to death.
Its a bad situation but it gives me comfort to know that the homeless population is know decreasing. Its slow but we are making progress.
On one hand, where’s the affordable housing? On the other hand, where’s the access to affordable mental health programs?
150M isn’t even close to covering a functioning public transit system in any major US city. Expansions of the subway in New York routinely run into the hundreds of millions of dollars, and that’s just expansions. Even if you’re looking at buses only, if you start with the assumption that each bus runs about $100k, that’s a mere 1500 buses. The CTA in Chicago uses over 1800 buses–that only counts the ones currently in operation–so you’re still short on building bus stops, bus lanes, any kind of light rail system, and so on. Oh, and lots of the bus lines in Chicago stop running after a certain time; I couldn’t take the buses to go to any concerts, since nothing operated in my area between midnight and 5am.
Plus, you have ongoing operating expenses. Once a stadium is built, it’s usually operated by someone other than the city.
I’m not saying I’m in favor of stadiums, but whoever costed this needs to consult with a civil engineer to come up with a more realistic figure for comprehensive public transit for major cities.
Try more like $500,000 for a bus.
And light rail is $20m per mile or more (way more in an established downtown).
And I am, in fact, a civil engineer.
Thank you for your more informed numbers! I had no idea that a basic city bus was half a million dollars; that seems outrageous, but it also seems outrageous that an F-150 can easily cost $80k.
It’s a pity that it’s so damn expensive to run light rail in established cities; it seems to make a lot more sense in the long run, but those numbers are really hard to swallow in the short run.
Hobart represents!
People have no idea what things cost. Stadiums are cheap.
150 million dollars in a major city might be enough to open a new Walmart. Forget about a comprehensive transit system.
It cost £200 million (£327m at current prices) just for 14km of tram lanes in my local city.
It could buy a decent amount of buses (~£200k each, more for green options), but without infrastructure changes and bus lanes, have fun watching them sit in traffic while everyone refuses to use them.
Shit’s expensive yo.
Not only they aren’t cheap, but they are pretty much never profitable. If we are to build things that are not profitable, we could as well build something that will offer a service to the population, like public transportation.
Not by fares, but by reduced loads on roads and increased building density. They’re infrastructure. Roads aren’t profitable either.
Not profitable, But for whom?
Contracts that big have a lot of grease and going on. Someone’s leasing that land from someone else.
The people In charge have a friend or two that own a few blocks of land just outside the site? Political capital, bribes, and contracts.
Hell, even the bus or rail line will face the same issues.
A lot of unprofitable ventures happen in government. It’s a sneaky way too steal tax money.
I don’t care or expect public services to be profitable, just lower cost and higher quality than a private Enterprise version.
Do we need quality, clean, reliable drinking water? Then don’t depend on shitrag nestle, who will figure out how to make it a stratified subscription.
Hell, without competition, even taxis can be held to a standard.
We’re going to pay a fortune for the government to provide safe infrastructure. But they’re going to hire all the right people vet them and make sure they do it right. Until they don’t.
Even NASA had to fall hard to get put back on track. I still think government services are the best option. Damn if the water isn’t fucking muddy. Pun not intended but I kind of like it.
A lot of your points, valid as they are, can be addressed if we have good transparency and oversight.
Let’s take advantage of how digital life has become, make reports accessible to the regular Jane/joe that detail where our tax dollars went.
A stadium is a service to the public. Stadiums are amenities, and increase happiness among the citizens that enjoy events. Even Sid Meyer’s Civ game has an amenities concept, because they’re really important for cities. If there’s no entertainment options in the city, then all of the talented people leave. That means all of the corporations with great jobs for talented people leave too. With them goes all the money, and you’re left with urban decay and poverty. Yes, transportation is important, but so are amenities.
The A’s are a nuisance, not a service.
Baseball games aren’t the only thing that happen at baseball stadiums. I agree with you about the A’s though. That’s a tragedy of a team, especially considering their previous highs.
Besides what Civ says, a lot of stadiums are built for a one time special event, like the olympics or some world cup.
I’m thinking about the olympic stadium of Montreal (which I think the post was about). It was built for the olympics of 76 and cost around a billion dollars at the time.
Since we don’t have a baseball team anymore, it is used only once in a while for music shows, but the acoustic is horrible because it wasn’t built for it. In my lifetime, I honestly never went inside for an event.
And now, the government is talking about a plan to repair it for an other billion. At this point, the only reason to keep it is because it’s so old and unique. Plus, it would just costs too much to demolish it.
It does bring a bunch of tourists annually, but for local people, it’s either seen as a weird relic of the past or a big scam.
Also, why can’t I just be a peaceful barbarian? Why would my population need amenities anyway? And who told them what is a stadium?Also, why can’t I just be a peaceful barbarian?
Because barbarians get crushed under the weight of civilization.
Raiders and Rams stadiums each cost over a billion and have been built in the last 5ish years. Stadiums should and can be cheap but the NFL owners aren’t doing that. Vegas is also tearing down the Tropicana to build a massive and expensive baseball stadium in its please with a smaller Tropicana on the site as well
Funny you mention those stadiums. SoFi Stadium, where the Rams play, was 100% financed by the Rams owner.
Allegiant Stadium, where the Raiders play, did get public funding, but it was capped at $750 million while the Raiders paid $1.1B.
I don’t like public stadium funding, either, but outside of Olympic spending, cities are mot routinely paying over $1B in public dollars for a single stadium.
Kroenke should lay his own shit, he’s made billions ripping off fans and married a Walton, you know, the family that makes billions refusing to pay their workers fairly and makes the towns they go into finance the building of the Walmart because they “create jobs” shitty jobs that still require government aid to live on but jobs I guess
Did I say they shouldn’t?
Yeah, plus 10/16 stadiums on the Wikipedia page for most expensive ones are in the US.
