After XP, Windows focused on adding crap to their aid that use unnecessary resources for crap things. I remember the Aqua look on Vista that sucked the life out of computers. Let’s not talk about Windows Me. Then 8 was a weird interface that no one liked and also not compatible with older machines. So XP is the most stable Windows os that can run on older devices.
ME came before XP
To be fair, vista and 7 had a lot of QOL improvements too.
I dont see the point of 10+ though, they pretty much just added fluff.
They had QOL but I remember my machines running significantly slower. And that was not worth the extra QOL.
XP still had the designed-by-engineers vibe. Since then, Microsoft got completely taken over by dipshits with marketing MBAs.
They now code Windows to impress executives and shareholders with how much they can harvest data and manipulate customers into using their stupid Store and so on. They stopped caring about the experiences of power users, or even casual users.
They don’t want the OS to work for us. They want us to work for them.
Though enshittification was coined, I think, with online services in mind, this is a perfect example of the process as it applies to an OS.
The enshittification of windows is because of its online services. Copilot AI, “telemetry”, ads, etc.
Completely agree. For some reason that word tends to trigger a few gatekeepers on here. But I think it fits.
Very well said.
Do you have any suggestions for people wanting to go back to an XP feeling?
A particular distro of Linux, etc.?
Any distro and a theme. Mate and XFCE work well for that style. Mint and LXQT maybe too.
Mint is the usual recommendation for transitioning from windows to Linux.
I’ll second this. Start with Mint or Pop!_OS
I second the recommendation of giving Linux Mint a shot. I didn’t use XP extensively but Mint is low hassle and gets out of your way.
I’m not sure it has quite the same feel, but closest I can think of that is also approachable coming from Windows. Obviously a lot of other distros also satisfy the “built by engineers” vibe.
Linux Mint is definitely the closest interface- and vibes-wise to XP imo, of the big distros worth considering
I have a lot of respect for Linux and use it here and there, but I am by no means an expert on it. The best thing I’ve done with it so far is running a Pi Hole at home.
Unfortunately, my job involves using MS Windows. A lot. After I retire…soonish…I hope to take some time and learn Linux better.
For my day-to-day Windows misery, I find that ShutUp10 does a great job of toggling off the bullshit you don’t want running. And it’s easy to toggle things back on if you ever need to. It’s a free program you can download and run. I send them a little money every year out of gratitude, but donations are completely optional.
Some FUD mongers will tell you that ShutUp10 ‘breaks’ Windows. That’s simply not true. It puts all the Windows settings you can change yourself in one easy-to-find place. Things that are normally scattered all over the UX and the registry.
While you could mess some things up using it if you’re not careful, it’s very good about color coding and letting you know which toggles are best to turn off, which ones are a little questionable, and which ones you should leave turned on (unless you know what you’re doing and can take the risk). I have used it for years now, on multiple PCs, with zero problems. It doesn’t make Windows 10/11 GOOD but it makes them less horrible.
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Britec09 from the video there is quite skeptical - sounds like he prefers ShutUp10. With Atlas, he worries about large security impacts for small FPS gains.
Good watch, thank you!
Zorin OS is a linux distro designed partly to feel like Windows
XP was a pretty good running OS with plenty of software and games. I held out till 10 was out for a bit and there were programs I wanted to run that required it.
WinME was that OS I ripped off a brand new laptop and replaced with 98SE so it would function correctly. When it crashes and hangs right out of the box…
Haha. Same here my new computer BSOD’d right out of the box with Me. Freaking HP Pavilion.
Don’t forget about Windows 7. That boy ripped. Too bad they didn’t take the good lessons from it.
I guinely hate windows as a product. But man XP was a banger for it’s time
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Vista was the warcrimes of OSes
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My first laptop ever came with Vista and it’s was so bug ridden and crashed constantly. It was so nice when windows 7 finally came out.
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It really was though. UAC didn’t actually work until windows 7.
This and Windows 8 and 8.1: either crappy or confusing
No. It was a crash test dummy for windows 7.
It was a beta that wasn’t stable.
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it was as stable as windows 11, but the uac system and other security chnages broke a lot of apps, including some system services. As soon as the apps adapted it became pretty decent.
About the performance, win7 isn’t lighter than vista, vista just came out too earlyWindows 11 has been pretty rock solid for me.
Vista was not and working in IT for a long time I saw enough examples of vista to never recommend it.
XP was better at everything until windows 7 came along.
It doesn’t matter how light an OS is if it isn’t stable.
Windows 11 is in its beta phase. Like windows 10 was until 2018.
And 11 is the beta for 12.
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I wouldn’t call vista successful. Windows 7 replaced XP, Vista did not.
Like I said, it was a beta.
As usual I think that sentiment was retroactive, certainly once Vista came out. At launch, people hated the Fisher-Price look of the Luna default UI. Like, a lot. The switch to the NT based kernel for the home version of Windows also caused a shitton of people’s hardware and peripherals not to work anymore because they needed new drivers and the manufacturers of said gadgets – if they were still in business – could not be arsed. Some of this could be alleviated by bullying that hardware’s Windows 2000 drivers into working with XP. Some of it could not.
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They should’ve just used the Silver theme instead of blue luna. Unless it didn’t exist on launch.
Windows has its ups.
The only problem people should have with it is that it’s on 70% of ALL desktops which is about half a billion too many.
A fair competition should be there. Linux, Mac and Windows should have around 33% market share in an ideal world.
You may count whatever Google is doing or Samsung/Huawei can do as separate in a dream world.
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When I was working security for a hospital they wanted to send imagery from an MRI (or maybe CAT, I forget) upstairs to be interpreted without allowing any network traffic to be able to reach the host machine because it was running XP. I asked why, and they told me that in order to replace it the vendor was requiring a $7 million replacement of the whole MRI.
Same shit is starting to happen with cars. No way to get the new headunits without replacing the whole car. I know Porsche offers electronic upgrade kits, but I can’t think of any others that do.
That should be illegal and the vendor held accountable for security incidents happening because of this.
I’ve worked in hospitals that still run DOS based programs for certain things. It’s madness.
I liked Vista.
There. I said it.
Vista was fine, apart from the performance. I had a fairly beefy machine for the time so I hardly noticed, but on lower spec machines it was an absolute dog.
Kinda felt like an unoptimised prerelease version of Windows 7
Vista Service Pack 2 was a solid OS, XP actually needed a few service packs to get fully to the place people remember it being great.
I didn’t use windows from 1999 through 2008, when I bought a laptop which of course came with Vista. I used it a bit and thought, well, for a wintendo, this isn’t horrible.
Same. I had no issues with Vista at all.
Well I also liked Millennium a lot.
Just when you think you know a guy…
A lot of public infrastructure in the US (powerplants, waste management, etc.) runs off XP or older.
i have several clients with xp systems (or even older), still, mostly for CNC applications, bulk trailer and tanker loaders, and similar. i keep recommending upgrading the systems, they keep balking at the high prices from their vendors.
I supported a production line as recently as 2015 that had an industrial paint mixer that still ran on NT4 Workstation
That seems to be the same decision our company has made on some stuff. In a way the old licensing model really hurt some businesses. They got so used to spending once and holding onto stuff for so long they basically cut the budget for maintaining and upgrading the same systems. Now it’s all considered profit and there’s no way will they let that money be purposed for something that, in their eyes, still works.
Not as prevalent these days, but a lot of EMR/EHR was built on XP. Some of those companies went out of business and the clinics using the software never upgraded because they couldn’t get the data out into another system.
it was always possible to do… just not at the price they were willing to pay.
There’s tons of legacy shit still running XP and there probably will be for at least another decade.
Yea I think most ATMs work on XP.
Played the heckin’ heck out of Lionhead Studios’ Black & White on XP. Good Times.
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The Black & White games were legendary. I Wish there were more games of its kind.
I’d love a VR god game of that caliber.
I’ve been looking for advice. I’ve been wondering if it was worthwhile to upgrade from 10 to 11. I heard 11 had ads and even more bloatware, a disgusting UI, and just general worse. But i was wondering if those are fixed/avoidable. I was thinking of upgrading before it gets too late, or idk…
Not from what I can tell. While upgrading will not detrimental from what I’ve heard (since you can upgrade a local account), there’s a lot which I personally don’t like about with Windows 11 which will make me want to not upgrade. If you have no intention of moving away from the Windows, it may be best to upgrade while MS is offering it.
Otherwise, if you are willing to take the plunge Linux is the better option if you are looking for an OS which has no ads, no adware bloat, and a UI to your liking. Mint or Zorin are a Good Windows like starting point if you are looking to get started.
Ive used MS my whole life. So im just stubborn to move to linux. But really i think just have to put in the effort and i’ll be happier in the long run.
They way I see it is this. I look at my computer as a tool and ask is it working for me right now? What software do I need for it to work? Is that software Windows only, if so can I move to an alternative software that cross platform?
Your computer is a tool that lets you do things. If some software, even the OS is holding you back take a look at what is holding you, and see if its worth the negative of staying to keep that software.
For me that answer was Yes Windows is holding me back, but for years I was shackled by Professional Software, games and Legacy apps which kept me to the platform.
Steam with proton fixed the games issue
Swapping myself to different cross platform software helped with my Professional software.
Legacy was managed with a cheap $20 thrift store laptop with Windows xp installed.
Imam now free to move away from windows, I chose Linux since I idealize a “do it all” pc, but Mac OS is also a viable alternative.
MS is offering it
Massgravel my friend
Windows 11 is miserable. You are now required to add Microsoft accounts at the OS level. Tons of bloatware, embedded ads in start menu, heavy user tracking. Shitty AI implementation pushed on all apps including notepad. And all of the windows 10+ elements are built in the windows 8 base image so all of the settings are nested on top of the new settings UI, on top of control panel.
local accounts still work, even on home edition
ads in the start menu work the same way as they do in windows 10 (pinned tiles that download actual apps from the store, you just need to unpin 'em)
I still don’t have any of the ai stuff, and pretty sure they should be controllable with a simple group policyLocal accounts only work with a really convoluted method during install, involving physically disconnecting your Ethernet cable and running a command in the OOBE.
you don’t need to do anything convoluted or remove your internet connection, you just need to run a single command before doing anything (which will cause your oc to reboot and the offline option to unlock)
Huh. The guide I read said you had to run the command then disconnect the internet at a certain point in the installation. Thanks!
it worked for me even with an internet connection, but you probably should still disconnect the internet while installing windows, you’ll get less bloatware
You can poleaxe the start menu ads with group policy as well. Same as with Win10.
No, they’re not going to be fixed or fully avoidable and you want to stay on Windows 10 or just go to Linux.
Windows 10 is genuinely better in every single way and it is incredibly sad.
And also, there is no “too late” as you can always upgrade whenever you want.
Thank you. Just the news of windows 8 being unsupported got me thinking.
And i’ve never touched linux. I might have to take the plunge and learn once win 10 becomes obsolete and unsupported.
Linux is not much different depending on what you do, all I recommend is stay away from distrobutions that use snap packages and the like. Linux Mint is a common recommendation.
I mainly use it for gaming. Whether it be triple a games. Or indy niche gaming. Plus like the ability to run like anything.
I heard there was a better alternative than linux mint for amd cpu/gpu users, but really i havent looked into anything for linux yet.
If you don’t mind not being able to run games with anticheat other than easy anticheat you’re good, people recommend “Nobara” as a gaming distribution but I always think tailored distros are a bit silly as something like Mint can do all of it anyways.
There’s not much you can’t do on Linux nowadays anymore thanks to Proton.
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This seems like a lot of hassle for no reason? It also doesn’t sound like it’d protect against much if it’s just microcode patching.
What’re you doing with Win7 where you still need it so desperately?
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I’m sorry, but there was zero hostility in my comment whatsoever. Quite literally just questions, and I am in fact in IT and was curious.
Nothing you’ve said seems like it’d need full internet access but it’s at least interesting, but asking more is pointless now.
It’s also quite easy to upgrade your Windows licenses for free, I would’ve been interested in what old games you’re playing.
It’s totally fine to upgrade from Windows 10 to 11, it’s basically the same thing. Overall it’s better in some regards (like better HDR support, direct storage is coming and so on) and a bit worse in others (I do hate the new right click menu). No ads though and barely any difference to Windows 10 as far as I noticed in over a year of using it.
Windows 10 already had all that stuff, telemetry, a link to Candy Crush in the start menu, it’s the same shit. Windows 11 didn’t get worse in that regard at all.
So just do a fresh installation of Windows 11 (don’t upgrade Windows versions, it’s a mess in the background) and have fun.
I just built a desktop for Windows 11, unfortunately I need a Windows desktop in the house even though Debian is my main OS. Last desktop was 13 years old and just wasn’t working for my needs anymore. Default 11 install is horribly bloated but I actually like the desktop environment now. Here’s some stuff I did:
Customized USB image to bypass Microsoft account with easily found steps if you Google. Used Chris Titus Tech’s tool to remove a bunch of shit, install apps, disable telemetry, configure windows update to security only. Used “Reclaim windows” script from github and customized for my purposes. After that I confirmed if all the shit was gone and did a remove-appxpackage for anything left, like widgets etc.
So I have a bare bones install, no Microsoft account, no Microsoft store, no “apps,” no default associations to builtin tools, and a bunch of common foss utilities and all my favorite windows-dependent apps working. Can’t believe it took the amount of effort it did but I like it now, given what my expectations were it definitely exceeded them.
I think with that much effort, ill just learn linux…
Yeah pretty much, most linux distros are at a usable state by default and you spend productive effort learning how to manage it, it’s probably easier than Windows at the end of the day especially for general use. I’m a heavy user of Ableton Live with plugins and using Windows is the only way to run it on your own hardware. Also becomes my gaming machine, but everything else is Debian.
Install Windows 11 using UK English and you’re basically dodging 99% of the complaints people have, I support 5 computers with W11, no issues with any of them and no adverts bothering me.
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i think it’s better.
the only downside is minor visual bugs with the taskbar, and the edge causing issues if uninstalled (may cause update loop or permanently break all pdf files unless you set another handler and previewer beforehand)
explorer got little bit slow ever since the tabs got added but it’s definitely not unusable, and I’d rather take 1 second hit to the loading time than an explorer without tabs
I don’t even know why people use Windows 10 (or 11) other than momentum.
I haven’t used Windows for years, but my daughter’s new online school required either a Windows 10/11 computer or a Mac and we can’t afford even a new decent Windows notebook, let alone a Mac, so we ended up getting a refurbished Thinkpad running Windows 10 from NewEgg.
Windows 10. Is. Annoying. As. Fuck.
We are constantly getting interrupted by unnecessary popups (or were until I took the time to disable everything I could think of, which was a pain in the ass).
After running updates, it made me go through a bunch of screens turning down paying for things. Twice. And those popups still asked me about paying for things. Motherfucker, I already paid $300 for the computer, I’m not paying you shit.
And wow is stuff counterintuitive in how to do it compared to either any Linux GUI I’ve tried or Mac OS. Just trying to figure out how to get to a File menu is baffling half the time.
I don’t blame anyone for using XP over that shit. Let alone Linux or even a Mac.
Just wait until they start putting ads in the file menu and make you sit through a 30 second commercial every time you want to open an application unless you join windows premium + subscription only 15$ a month
Drink verification can to continue your Windows™ experience
Microsoft reserves the right to collect and sell any genetic information exposed to drink verification can via bodily fluids.
Proceeds to transmit your entire genome to their cloud servers in plaintext
For me I use Win11 for one reason: Auto HDR. Fixes every issue I have with HDR in other OSes cause it just works.
I can see that, but is it really worth running it as an OS other than for that specific use? Because if not, you can just run it in an emulator or on a partition when you need that.
Well I play a lot of HDR games and watch a lot of HDR movies, so for me the use isn’t exactly “specific”. I’m using HDR all the time.
But to be honest, I’d love nothing more than to switch to Linux fulltime. The game support is finally good enough for me, but I need my HDR. Emulation isn’t an option cause HDR doesn’t work that way, and I already dual boot Mint and Win11. But right now my usage is about 90% Windows and 10% *Nix. Can’t wait for the day when I can finally switch those percentages around.
I don’t even know why people use Windows 10 (or 11) other than momentum.
Security updates. That’s it, that’s the only reason I recommend anyone unwilling or unable to switch operating systems all together to move to Windows 10.
Why are the percentages in decimals, like this - “0.64%”?
And why does the total add up to 1.02%?The same reason there are 98 characters in your message.
edit… Incase you were serious… how else would you represent less than 1%?
Because you are only seeing part of the chart.
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Less funny when you realize it’s mostly banks, government agencies, and militaries still using it.
I’d say more likely it’s labs, hospitals, and other scientific stuff where you have to deal with old instruments cause lack of money. I’m fairly certain the military uses some other OS, I believe NATO uses Solaris for example.
Also that machine only works under very specific circumstances, so you fear changing anything in case your entire protocol breaks and you have to start from scratch.
As a former banker I can tell you that most ATMs run Windows NT 4.0.
However since the network is completely clamped down and the OS boots via network as well (no hard drives in ATMs), they are pretty secure.
I’ve also indeed seen some Windows XP terminals in use just lately - one in fact in a hospital my current company collaborates with - but it’s isolated and used to run some sequencer that was never ported to a 64 bit architecture, and apparently doesn’t run in compatibility mode either.
Yeah seems about right.
In my lab we have a spectrometer and an HPLC with computers that use windows XP.
Tho I noticed the HPLC one is connected to the internet, gonna have to ask them of that’s necessary
Tho I noticed the HPLC one is connected to the internet, gonna have to ask them of that’s necessary
Someone had to download the Doom installer at some point, of course.
Also Cobol mainframes.
If the U.S. military is anything like it was in the 90s, they may very well still be using Windows XP for all kinds of things. My mother-in-law ran an army reserve center through the late 90s and they were using DOS machines well into the Windows era because the army wouldn’t update their computers.
“Windows for Submarines”
It’s XP for Vanguard subs. I really hope none of them provide any telemetry for these stats though.
doubt they’re connected to the internet. In fact I’d wager 99% of shit running windows XP is not connected to the internet (and shouldn’t be)
if it’s not connected to the Internet, it won’t show up in the stats
You know there’s other ways to do these kinds of estimates, right?
The current company that owns the old model installed in your hospital and sells the new version, bought the company that bought the company that made the version you have and can’t update the firmware and code to work on a modern OS because all knowledgeable staff were lost in the buyouts.
The best they can do is sell you the new version that does the same thing your current working version does for $500,000.
Maybe they even have a new ecosystem that they want you to move to, because they don’t make support/subscription revenue with the current stand alone server that moves the image or telemetry results from the machine to the viewing workstations and records database.
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It’s moreso that they have some abandonware that only works on windows XP.
Windows XP itself is abandonware and you shouldn’t use it in any other case, just use Linux if you don’t like newer windows. You certainly aren’t doing any photoshopping on XP nowadays so that’s no concern.
And hospitals. Don’t forget those.
I’ve seen Citrix used a lot in hospitals to host apps. Xp isn’t used any longer since it’s not supported.
And ATMs. Lots of ATMs.
Add industrial automation to the list.
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Why do you think it’s less funny this way?
Mainstream support ended 15 years ago. Extended security support ended 10 years ago. The last version to have any kind of update at all was their embedded OS version for things like cash registers, with the last security update 5 years ago.
So it’s wildly insecure against any new attacks targeting an OS that’s largely used by major corporations, governments, and medical facilities that are juicy targets for theft and ransomware attacks.
More funny in my book.
Might not be so funny when you’re slowly dying of radiation sickness.
What? First time I hear XP gives radiation sickness.
It does when someone hacks the nukes that it controls.
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And medical. Suppliers if CT, MRI and X-Ray gear are notorious for wanting to sell new gear and not providing software updates to work on new operating systems.
I highly doubt it. I work for a large bank, and it’s all W10/11 due to the need for continuous security patches/currency updates. Large banks don’t mess around with EOL software that has a risk of vulnerabilities
Yeap, on the workstations. In the atms and cash recyclers etc… got bad news for you…
Large banks don’t mess around with EOL software that has a risk of vulnerabilities
Well, more complex modern software has an higher risk of (yet unknown) vulnerabilities.
these are mostly enterprise systems right? like terminals/pos stuff where the system is responsible for just running the ui?
More likely to mostly be 3rd world countries
Possibly. There is an embedded version of XP that’s meant to be run on kiosks, control panels, thin clients, and such. Its support was finally ended in 2016, but I’m sure there are still machines around someplace still working that have it baked-in. Probably in ROM in some cases.
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What worries me more is what eldritch horrors await us in other versions
7
excuse you sir, windows 7 is still one of winblows highest points far from being horror, eldritch? perhaps, but no horror there
Wasn’t as good as 8 (.1)
I agree honestly the slapped-together aesthetic of windows 8.1 is intriguing.
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Lmao too true
$20 says there’s at least one person out there still running Win3.1 daily.
.
Yeah, I have a w3.1 machine and I play with it regularly, but it really lacks as a daily driver. On the other hand, my w98 machine can do basically everything I need for work, except web browsing. It’s fascinating how little have operating systems progressed in the last 25 years, user-facing wise.
I collect vintage and iconic computers as a hobby, and the only reason i bought a win98 machine was so I could play DOS games on the real hardware. But otherwise yeah, it can do most things youd use a modern computer for very well other than it shouldnt connect to the internet.
You can connect it to the internet, just be in the mindset that anything you do on it someone else can see it.
Just please don’t connect it to a network
George RR Martin writes all his books on an old ass computer:
https://www.daskeyboard.com/blog/how-george-r-r-martin-writes-on-an-old-school-dos-computer/
But you are right, if it was his daily driver we’d have more books out by now…
More like a critical computer running at the heart of a billion dollar company running software written in a long forgotten language against apis that no longer exist.
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Set them up with a VM on a newer machine
I know one
I have a copy, I just need to find an old-ass pc to install it on.
Maybe an ATM.
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