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If Microsoft wants more RAM just to do AI shit on my computer, I’d rather have even less just to make sure they cant.
You now understand why I constantly run at 10 bytes below my OS drive’s limit. They cant take consent away if what they want to do is physically impossible. Sure you can delete some temporary files but that’s only going to net you 1GB max. Good fucking luck.
Be careful with what you wish for… if they can’t do it on your computer, then they’ll send your data to the cloud to do it there.
I will have no next windows PC anyways. I’ll go out of my way to get one without a windows license, to put linux onto it :)
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Unfortunately they don’t ship to norway (or have a norwegian layout available). But would really like one if/when they do. Not in a rush to get a new laptop now though. I’ll keep framework in mind when its time for a new one.
Or with Coreboot: https://minifree.org
This goes two ways, everyone with less ram will probably don’t know about Linux and just lose their laptop (not upgradable ones) and: new built laptops will have more ram and better CPUs. And guessing with the windows handheld industry this also boosts them. But it’s gonna be a big shame people just abandoning their tech because of not enough knowledge.
This is like people abandoning a stick shift and rigid frames/chasses for modern automatic/CVT and and unibody with crumple zones. The latter are complicated, expensive, and inefficient - but substantially more forgiving to the average driver who merely wants to get from A to B with the minimum amount of effort. Linux will be there for people who choose to dedicate hundreds of hours a year to the hobby of computers. For everyone else who doesn’t want to open their laptop to replace the keyboard, update their wireless card, and clean or replace the system fans and solder in a new power connector, buying a new laptop with the extra horsepower (to overcome the code creep) will offer them all those things at a price cheaper than even taking them to the corner repair shop to get the mechanical failures fixed.
Linux will be there for people who choose to dedicate hundreds of hours a year to the hobby of computers.
And my grandma. She’s been running Linux just fine for the past 3 years. I don’t think she even knows what an OS is.
That’s a bit hyperbolic. You’re talking as if it’s still early 2000s. Many Linux distributions have very good user experience for beginners and better out-of-the-box device driver support than even Windows.
I choose one of those niche distributions since I have advanced requirements. But I have observed a steady decline in hardware-related issues over the years. In fact, Linus Torvalds confirms this in an interview.
Linux distributions are a viable alternative to Windows these days. But what keeps people away from it is misinformation and FUD like these.
Many Linux distributions have very good user experience for beginners
I 100% agree. The issue isn’t beginners, it’s people who already know windows, and only windows. They’d be just as lost switching to OSX. Kids pick up chromebooks easily, but most adults - the ones who have 5-8 year old machines with only 8GB - are completely lost. I tried to get my mother onto LibreOffice (okay, Open Office…it’s been that long) and it lasted less than a week and one panicked old-lady newsletter deadline. She was utterly lost, and no amount of help would get her out. To be fair, she gets lost when her phone updates to the newest major OS revision.
I choose one of those niche distributions since I have advanced requirements.
I chose windows for the same reason - specialized industry where nearly all tools are written for Windows. I have $15k in software, $200k in setup and procedures, and $100-200k in training I would have to redo to switch to linux, and while that was happening I would have zero income, so double those numbers for net losses. That’s assuming I could even find perfect analogs in the linux world, which is unlikely, and that I was willing to receive and send non-standard files to all of my colleagues. I could consider Wine/Proton, but then I’d have to learn it or risk losing $2000/day plus the cost of tracking down repairs if anything (like an update) broke a critical piece of software. It simply not worth the financial risk.
I love to bash MS, but this feels like an industry-wide trend to /never/ care about optimizing beyond the bar of “typical specs of new devices in rich countries”. I’m guessing it’s just to limit labor costs, and computers are less-rapidly-improving than the 90s/00s?
Code optimization has pretty much fallen by the way side since ram prices keep going down and cpu performance keeps improving.
Why spend the time if you don’t have to?
Browsers are some of the worst culprits.
Browser canvas is one of the worst culprits: it has to keep a buffer with an uncompressed bitmap several screens in size.
Old browsers used to keep a single screen worth of canvas buffer, then redraw stuff as you scrolled… which made it a horrible experience. You can still find some of that with “clever” web designs where they replace fonts or move things dynamically as you scroll.
Then you have websites with “infinite scroll” that just keep increasing the canvas buffer size more and more and more, to infinity and beyond… and people wonder why their Facebook or Reddit tabs use so much RAM.
Just for the sake of a beautiful audited and blazingly fast codebase that tuns qo good that Raspberry Pi user can run your stuff too.
I love optimisation!
premature optimization is the root of all evil - Donald Knuth
which does not excuse a total lack of optimization, but gotta hit those kpi’s
if it remember it correctly it was said in relation to algorithm optimization > code optimization
linux needs like 1gb of ram and some distros even less
Strictly speaking, “Linux” can run on 10MB of RAM or less.
Meanwhile, a single web page may need 100MB or more to build the DOM, run all scripts, and keep a buffer of the canvas.
256MB on my old NAS running OpenMediaVault.
Actually only 22% of the memory used, even while streaming audio. just the cpu fluctuates feom 0% to 70%
Looking at this prompted me to set the proper date after yesterdays reboot
My next Windows PC doesn’t need any RAM, because I’m not going to need one.
RAM is cheap, and even if you’re just doing absolute basic shit your current PC will work better with 16GB of RAM (also looking at you here, Apple). If it’s not a phone you’re buying don’t get anything with less than 16GB.
It is not just RAM. They also require special hardware/chip to run ANN
I’d like a phone with 16GB of RAM… using a 3GB one right now, and between a Lemmy app, a browser, and maybe some other app, it keeps running out of RAM and closing the keyboard app, which is a real nuisance.
On a phone the additional power draw of larger modules can be an issue - plus phones are designed to freeze background apps to conserve memory, so you can get away with less.
I currently have 6GB in my phone, which mostly is fine. In a few situations I’d have preferred having 8, though. 4 or less hasn’t made sense for a few years now.
Not sure how much of a difference would that make to power draw. There are already some phones with 12GB of RAM, and most of the power still goes to lighting up the screen.
My main gripe is that they all come paired with some fancy cameras which drive up the costs. I’d rather have a basic camera and even a lower resolution screen, with a ton of RAM, than the other way around.
I guess it depends on how you are using your phone. If you’re mostly using it between charges (possibly replacing other devices) it indeed doesn’t matter. If you care about standby time, or use it as music player or similar tasks more than active use it does matter.
RAM can also enter a low power mode:
A 64GB laptop configured with two 32GB DDR4 modules consumes less than 4.6 watts (W) in active mode and less than 1.4W when idle
DDR5 uses about 20% less power, so for 16GB you’re looking at less than 0.3W… likey way less, since a Samsung S24 Ultra with 12GB of RAM claims up to 95 hours “while listening to music”. That’s on a 5000mAh battery, or 18Wh, meaning less than 0.2W for “CPU + 12GB RAM + Bluetooth + storage”.
My next OS will be some kind of Linux. I just had to reinstall Windows 11 because it corrupted it’s install after some time. I had to uninstall so much crap and regedit so many thinks just to get it back to where I was before. I don’t want Bing search in my windows search results. I don’t want your stupid widgets and I don’t want your browser or 90% of your default apps. And no I don’t want office 360 or onedrive. So stop forcing it into my face. When Linux gets Plasma 6 and HDR support there is only holding me back my Nvidia GPUs Linux compatibility. While I hah to install windows 11 again I played a lot of games on my Steam Deck! It’s is awesome and only some games with obscure anti cheat don’t run. (well some times they don’t run on windows too)
nvidia opensourced their drivers because of that lapsus kid.
the community is already building a state of the art open driver for nvidia 2xxxx and above.
only a matter of time, but even then nvidia is pretty usable with the proprietary drivers nowadays.
Just saying, but tweaking stuff via regedit is a surefire way to get your Windows install corrupted sooner or later.
dism, sfc… and disabling the preview update channel, are your friends to have a stable Windows install.
If you don’t want Bing results in your search, then use something like Everything to search for files. It’s faster, and will only show you files, all of them.
The widgets you can disable, and with Powertoys even bypass the start menu completely.
Anyone an idea or a link what kind of AI they want to run on people’s machines? Will it add something for the user or just annoy you and add more targeted advertising?
The second one.
Clippy v.2.
Hehe, pretty sure it’s that. With Microsoft’s history of letting loose racist and unhinged chatbots… I’m eager to get to know Clippy v2.
They’re going to make us miss that clueless little bastard.
Even as far back as XP/Vista Microsoft has wanted to run the file system as more of an adaptive database than a classical hierarchical file system.
The leaked beta for Vista had this included and it ran like absolute shit, mostly because harddrives are slow and ram was at a premium, especially in Vista as it was such a bloated piece or shit.
NTFS has since evolved to include more and more of these “smart” file system components.
Now they want to go full on with this “smart” approach to the filesystem.
It’ll still be slow and shit, just like it was 2 decades ago.
Even further back, the first attempt was around 1990 and Windows NT.
The beta for Vista with WinFS, was not exactly “leaked”, it was given to developers at a MS conference.
NTFS doesn’t have any of that, they’ve shifted the functionality to the Search Indexer… and it’s what most people use when they hit the Win key and start typing the name of some file.
Microsoft are such weirdos. It’s like they’re trying to empower Google, who will lap up all of the users they abandon as they install Chrome OS, because let’s be honest, the average Jo seldom just installs Linux, so they’ll say, “oh I’ve heard of Chrome, let me try that”
Average users aren’t going to be installing an OS.
No, they’re going to buy a Chromebook instead of a Windows laptop
Does anyone outside of some schools buy chromebooks?
Yes :( Unfortunately Chromebooks are really cheap here, and countless people are hooked already to Google products because of their Android phones already, so the choice is easy for them I figure.
That’s crazy, I’ve never seen anyone use them here in Australia.
I think because every business has its own little proprietary windows app they need to use for this or that.
Good for you. Recently I visited a family I’m friendly with, and noticed that the parents and the two young kids exclusively use a few Chromebooks. I think this boils down to do with the popularity of web based email (Google) and other services. And banks are pushing for customers to use phone apps.
And most people just use a web browser apparently. Oh, and HP printers that break every few weeks. “Hey, you’re a programmer, fix my printer.”
😂
Already switched to linux
I have 32 gigs of ram and this shit is going to make me switch to Linux as well.
I do not want an OS that demands half of my processing power just to run in the background. I see absolutely no reason for an OS to demand 2-4 gigs of ram, let alone up to 16
Another reason to move to Linux ;P
Ubuntu is by far the most popular distro and it is no more efficient than Windows, on the contrary. RAM usage in particular is worse.
Try Linux Mint with XFCE. I don’t see this RAM usage issue at all. I have Firefox open with several other apps in the background again running XFCE with Linux Mint (Based on Ubuntu), it’s using 1.9GB RAM total (thus below the 2GB).
Don’t worry! Eventually, they will find a “cure,” such as Windows moving to a cloud-only model where your PC becomes a glorified dumb terminal!
So like Windows 365, but for consumers.
That’s probably not the worst option for most consumers. People are horrible about keeping their shit updated.
Most people only use their computers for web browsing anyways, and many people buy systems that are way more powerful than what they actually need. I’ve had to talk a ton of people out of buying i7 laptops just for Office and the internet.
I’ve built and maintained Citrix VDI environments for a global company, and once people get over the “this is new” hurdle, they love it.
It already does imo
Even on linux you need 8gb to use to a web browser with ad block
Well you’ll need X GB to use a X GB file whatever the OS, here windows seems to need 16 just to run which is quite ridiculous.
@Fizz true. My PC came with 4 GB originally. It was a pain once I opened the browser or Discord (which I usually do). Upgraded to 12 and no longer have any issue, at least on the current distro.
