Virtually every single bad adaptation can be directly traced back to studio interference.
Movies like LoTR only happened because the studios thought it would be a colossal flop, and so left the directors and producers alone.
If you want great movies, the studios need to leave the producers and directors the hell alone.
Also, low bugets makes the directors extra creative. They need to make the most of what they have. In my opinion, a well written plot trumps special effects every time.
LotR also is going to stand out from now on, because at the time it was made, CGI was ok, and getting to be good, but they didn’t trust it for crowds yet. SW Ep. 1 came out at about the same time, and the CGI crowds don’t hold up. LotR had PJ directing and he wanted to use as many real people and real sets as he could, so that when they had to use CGI it wouldn’t be noticable. You can see the difference looking at The Hobbit movies.
Counterpoint: Game of Thrones. The studio would have been happy to give them a few more seasons to develop a better ending. It’s the creators who gave up and phoned in the ending we got.
George RR Martin is the creator of game of thrones, not the show runners.
Oh wait, the original example was lotr, which also was based on books lol. Nevermind me, carry on.
LOTR was based on a trilogy that was finished looking before the movies were made. Starting a TV show and hoping the source material would be finished in time for the end was a, um, bold move.
Even ignoring that, Martin was helping them continue it without a book to base the story on and was pushing for 10 sessions, the show creators wanted to move on and start working on another project instead and we got what we got…
And they promptly lost said projects.
Good
Got it
George RR Martin was a consultant on seasons that had not yet been written as books. He told the writers where he wanted the story in the books to go, and where to take the story in the show. I doubt it’s true, but a lot of fans were speculating that he made the end deliberately bad (Arya kills the Night King, Denarys goes crazy, Cersei and Kingslayer reunite to be crushed by the collapsing Red Keep, Bran becomes king) because he wanted the show to be worse than his next two books. @
My head Canon is that that was the actual ending he planned and because it flopped so hard the last books will never happen
No man, that specific ending can be made to work. But you need good writers, several more seasons and good taste to do that. Martin gave DandD a finish line, but they had to figure the trail and make the run. They just suck at that so bad that it almost killed their entire careers, got them dropped from the job they had lined up and poisoned everything they touched for 5 years. Netflix just gave them the “3 body problem” adaptation. I’m sure it will be good because the thing is already written, and they are usually good at coloring between the lines. Just not good at coming up with new original or creative stuff.
He said in interviews that he was pushing for 10 seasons, I don’t think he intentionally fucked up, I think he did what he could with two showrunners that were tired of doing their job and couldn’t accept that someone else would take the reins.
The only problem is that GoT didn’t have any more source material, as Martin didn’t finish the story (think he still hasn’t?).
The creators were in constant touch with GRRM. They knew where he intends to go. The ending we got could be done better if things were fleshed out over a longer period of time.
You’re assuming GRRM knows where he intends to go. Or more importantly, how he intends to get there.
We know he has a specific destination in mind. It’s well established that he had an outline for what was originally a trilogy. It’s why the first book is heavier with hints of (for example) Jon’s lineage than the others.
How to get there has clearly changed, and GRRM might not know how anymore.
Writing is the only thing that matters. I point to “Everything Everywhere All at Once” and “Amsterdam”. The latter of which had 4x the budget.
Because a bad effect, actor, or shot can only ruin a moment. A bad script ruins the story.
I quite enjoyed amsterdam. It’s not better than everything everywhere but it’s still a good film
Well to be fair I had way too much weed beforehand but like. Ehhhhh. It felt like a circlejerk for random famous people. Also Taylor Swift cannot act.
I kinda disagree with the writing being the ultimate decider on what makes a good story) movie. Directing and editing matters just as much, if not more so. Those two brings to life what is written on the page because sometimes it’s hard to imagine what is described on the page.
Good writing, directing and editing are all necessary, and are not on their own sufficient.
Why not just read a book, then?
For all the bad you hear about studios though, there are plenty of stories of movies that were saved by the studio because the director was off the rails and had no idea what to do. Here’s a list with a couple:
https://collider.com/10-movies-that-were-improved-by-studio-interference/#easy-rider-1969
Most of these are a stretch. They didn’t like psycho so they underfunded it. Hitchcock finances the movie, takes a pay cut along with the actors. Somehow this is positive interference…
I can’t remember who it was, but there was a producer credited for greenlighting several classic movies in the 1960s and 70s. We’re lucky if a producer or executive is good at spotting what makes a good story and have dependable crew to make it.
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Event Horizon but I feel that it would be a lot more in your face horror if they made it today.
Excuse me? Event Horizon is perfect.
Handrails.
Hard agree. Don’t touch my baby!
Exsqueeze me they said Bad movie
I just wanna see more warp/chaos stuff tbh.
Please don’t touch that movie. It is great as it is.
I too would like to see Event Horizon made with today’s technology but I’m also 100% sure that it wouldn’t be as good as the original. I’d still pay to watch it in the theater, probably twice, but the original was perfect.
The reason why it works is because they’re using puppets prosthetics and miniatures. It’ll look like garbage if they remade it today (go watch the thing prequel for proof).
Once the miniature workers unionized, the studios started to rely heavily on CG because they could make them work insane hours without OT. CG is really a symptom of a labor issue.
Wonder Park was a bland, risk-averse animated film in 2019. A little girl’s imaginary theme park (and coping mechanism for her grief) actually exists. Remake it as an ongoing animated series.
Why not games, too? Final Fantasy VIII comes to mind as one super deserving of a glow up, as well as YIIK, and especially Drakengard. All RPGs, of various flavours, with substance that just needs to be simmered right.
For movies? Fuck it, Sharkboy and Lavagirl.
They said bad movies, not a fucking masterpiece.
Morbius
Careful you’re gonna make me Morb out
Ant Man: Quantummania has all the essential elements to be considered a remake of Shark Boy and Lavagirl
Looking at you, Dark Tower
I can’t believe we’re in the universe where there’s a Dark Tower film with the incredibly talented Idris Elba and it was so stupidly bad.
Does he play Susannah?
No, he plays Jake.
I heard a rumor that Stephen King gave Mike Flanagan the greenlight to do Dark Tower. Here’s to hoping. That’s one of the few things I want to see as a show rather than movies
Imagine the dude doing the Dune movies making Dark Tower.
I’m dreaming. But it’s a wicked cool dream.
It is not a rumor.
https://ew.com/tv/mike-flanagan-dark-tower-stephen-king-adaptation-update/
the director envisioned as a five season TV series, followed by two stand-alone features.
Wow that’s not what I was expecting at all.
Should be a TV series. Start with The Gunslinger and work your way through the books, but also split up Wizard and Glass into small chunks to use as episode openers so there isn’t suddenly a season long flashback with different actors.
yeah it can’t be a movie. Unfortunately my favorite character will never be accurately adapted and will lose her badassery. Better we wait for another time
Funnily enough the movie they made was supposed to be the intro to a TV show.
Trying to expand Gunslinger to bring in more backstory (and reeeeeeeally messing up the backstory) killed both the movie and the planned TV show. It’s crazy how well their plan could’ve worked if they hadn’t tried to fold too much into the “prequel”. Dark Tower even has the built-in “out” that this is a different turn of the wheel.
They were going to run out of material way too fast the way they did the movie. They condensed The Gunslinger, The Drawing of the Three, Wolves of the Calla, and Song of Susannah into ninety minutes. They could have done the rest of Drawing, but then that just leaves The Waste Lands, The Dark Tower, and an excessively long flashback with Wizard and Glass. They would have needed to just not adapt more book content in order to have more than a couple seasons of material.
THERE’S A MOVIE!!?
Yo, I am reading that series!
Don’t get hyped, it’s mid at best.
Awh
I agree with the premise, but your example is, like, spectacularly bad. The Ghost in the Shell movie you’re thinking of, the recent one? THAT WAS A REMAKE THAT NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN MADE, IN THE FIRST PLACE.
The original is good. It didn’t need a remake. You’re literally talking about the opposite of your whole premise. They took a movie that was already good and made a remake of it, to make it suck, except for the fact that it had Scarlett Johansson in a very tight robot suit.
EDIT: nevermind! The title is an example of how it’s currently done wrong. That makes so much sense, now that someone pointed it out.
OP was mentioning GITS as an example of how it’s currently done (wrong). The “instead of remaking great movies” part
Oh…that makes perfect sense.
Sequels too. A perfect movie can’t benefit from them, but shitty movies might be able to.
no game no life zero
Basically that’s what they did with Ocean’s 11. The original Frank Sinatra version was shit. But it was a good idea, a crew of super cool dudes get together to rob a casino.
They remade it and it was very successful.
The Thing has a similar origin.
But it’s rare things like that happen because Hollywood execs usually need an existing property with good numbers to greenlight a movie.
Funn enough Ocean’s X is also the opposite example since they didn’t stop just making more of the same.
For a second I thought you were trying to say that The Thing (2011) is a better remake of The Thing (1982), but then I remembered that 1951 version exists.
Original thing was pretty good.
The one from the 50’s, good as it was for the time, is now overshadowed in the popular consciousness by Carpenter’s. Ironically, it seems like the former did quite well at the box office whereas the latter bombed and only over time has it grown in popularity.
Carpenter’s is closer to the original short story, too.
I would consider Carpenter’s to be a sequel of sorts. It takes up after another crew has been already destroyed by The Thing. It gels well with the idea that the 50s movie is about post WWII paranoia (kill everything that looks different on sight). While Carpenter’s, while being a bit closer to the source material, is about cold war paranoia. Everything, even those who you trust the most, could be a shapeshifting monster. The movie even ends on a cold quiet unresolved and presumably eternal face-off.
Battle Star Galactica anyone?
Some older movies that come to mind: Enemy Mine. Great sci fi premise that was ahead of its time. Just plagued with bad effects and limitations.
The Last Starfighter Not bad even for the day but I think it’s a solid enough concept that could use a refresh. Set in the 80’s to get the retro video game vibe. I think it could even be a multiple movie property.
Masters of the Universe It was a goofy premise with some interesting characters that were wasted. Even the updated animated series didn’t do great. Or even go off in a space Western and do a Rio Blast movie.
Krull was really missing the visual elements to tell the story and it ended up cheesy and stilted (still holds some nostalgia for me though). It could still be a fun space fantasy.
Great post and right to the point of the OP!
The Last Starfighter Not bad even for the day but I think it’s a solid enough concept that could use a refresh. Set in the 80’s to get the retro video game vibe. I think it could even be a multiple movie property.
If it were a Netflix production they could have little easter eggs in it like the arcade being the one in Hawkins (Stranger Things).
The last Starfighter, was supposed to be multiple movies. I loved the original, but I’d be down with a remake.
Krull was bad, but I still loved it!
They have. Dune would be one example.
I will die on this hill I legitimately like Mr. Mayor and Picard better than the new one. It took me like 4 tries to get through the new one it is so slow and full of itself. I’m not sure what the line is for me between good slow and being a slog but the new one is so hard for me to pay attention to. I’d rather scroll through spaceship still shots with some space music in the background
The new movie is not slow compared to the book though, in fact it feels like the book shown in a time lapse.
It’s adapting a book where sometimes a chapter is two people meeting in a room and having a short conversation, and you get to know what one person is thinking about the conversation at length, and then the same thing from the other person’s perspective, and then they leave the room.
I couldn’t get through the book either… Like I said I’m not sure what that line is for me because I’ve definitely watched and read slow things but Dune can be so off the charts slow it hurts me. LotR is slow and half the movies are spent watching people running through fields but both the books and movies captured my attention (I know this is an imperfect comparison just first example I thought of). I’m excited you all can enjoy the new movie but I’ll take the old one
To be fair, I’ve read the books and love the newest film, but I can’t read or watch LotR because to me, they drag on and on while moving nothing.
I read the Hobbit, flew through it one of my favourites. I had to force myself to finish fellowship. It’s so obtuse. Dube however. One again flew threw it, even though it’s massive. I just could not put it down. Genuinely became my all time favourite book.
The pacing of the new film is great. But I’m the kind of person who wants to stay and linger on aspects of the world and really get to know what’s going on. So I like “slow” films like Blade Runner 2049. But to me they never feel slow. The film ends and im still there wanting more, watching the credits to the very end just to eke out every little bit out of the film.
I’m a big Dune fan but I was miffed at how unsatisfying and clipped the first movie was. It’s not a complete movie on its own, it really needed to finish with the acceptance ritual of the Fremen and then that would allow movie 2 to start by playing with what happens during the time jump in the latter half of the book. I loved the ambience and the attention to detail in the movie, but tons of the little details lost their meaning and their payoffs without more context. (The bullfighter metaphor, the palms for example). I would have preferred the details to be cut or saved for an “extended version” rather than just be used as Easter eggs. I’m really counting on movie 2 to bring it all together so I can just treat it like one epic movie.
Yeah, I do think it was a weird decision ended it where they did. To me it feels like they started the first act of the next movie but only got part way through. I feel like they must’ve done it purely just so they can fit more in the next one. Cause a more satisfying ending would be ending it where “Book 1” ended in the book and go all out on the vision scene. The vision scene in the movie was a big let down for me. I still love the movie overall, but that’s the thing I was so excited to see all the way through and then it’s just a standard flash forward sequence.
Shut your pie hole! The original with Sting was amazing!
It was a solid B movie until the end. How do you decide to cut the fact that Paul becomes the emperor from the movie completely?
How do you put random bs like pugs and heart plugs in the greatest space epic of all times? I respect Lynch for his other work but his Dune is a fucking joke from my point of view.
Now I have to watch it again, I swore he did become emperor in the end.
Irulan is escorted away before the final scene and never comes back.
Lol
Well they are taking another swing at Fantastic Four
How are our corporate overlord supposed to know what a good story is other than the success of a movie based in them?
They can ask chatgpt :D
Ironically capitalism does not like to take much risk, nor do the large companies who are best able to take them. It also sucks that many things are switching to being ads supported, so there is further limiting of creativity. For example, Love, Death, and Robots is a really awesome animated anthology. It is something that does not try to have the broadest appeal; however, the customers are now advertisers who may not want to run ads on something with a narrower audience. Oddly it seems Netflix will be going down the path of YouTube battling that to keep the content adverts will buy space for, and YouTube trying to be independent of it with its premium. Strange world.
Love, Death + Robots is amazing and everyone should watch it.
For real.
Hell yeah, even the ones I didn’t like were well done and I’m glad I watched them.
