Does “be civil” include constantly shitting on huge groups of users just because of the instance they created their account on? There’s a very simple solution for this if you truly believe an entire instance is worthless and it’s called the blocking function, but I suppose that’d stop the joy you get out of loudly complaining about that instance repeatedly.
.world consistently removes memes calling out their own communities. But they leave up any “meme” bashing .ml
As does ml. Worse even. But the fact that both do is a defense of neither. So I’m not sure why you even bring it up. Be better. World isn’t tied to any particular political ideology. Ml 100% is. And if you mention absolute documented facts. You can and will be banned from there. Because the facts go against the narratives. World has its problems. But I haven’t seen anything approaching that yet.
But theres a difference, when a .world mod defends genocide or promotes imperalism you know its ok because its in the name of Western Democracy ™. Tbh .ml and .world are basically in a competition on who can fling the most shit and who can bootlick the hardest.
Pretty based take… coming from a lemmy.world user. /$
It’s a meme sub, chill out.
a) Huge groups of users well known to spread the promotion, praise and propaganda of dictatorships and other authoritarian governments, bigotry, racism and transphobia. Even when there are hard facts against them.
b) The Lemmy blocking function isn’t anywhere as good as you think it is. Maybe even by design, the main admin on .ml is also the lead dev of Lemmy after all.
yeah uh, that’s the joke. That’s the obviously implication of the joke here.
That’s like saying that “all murderers are bad” and then me going “well hey don’t you think is a little bit broad of a generalization? And unfair to people who were unfairly charged, or perhaps in inconvenient but justified circumstances?”
You could make the meme say “lemmy.ml tankies running free posting tankie bullshit” but that doesn’t roll as well as “lemmy.ml doing tankie things because lemmy.ml seems to have no problem with tankies existing”
You could make the meme say “lemmy.ml tankies running free posting tankie bullshit” but that doesn’t roll as well as “lemmy.ml doing tankie things because lemmy.ml seems to have no problem with tankies existing”
It did neither of those things though, so that’s irrelevant. It just says it’s a comment.
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I actually didn’t make this meme, I cross posted it from someone else on !memes@sopuli.xyz
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It’s not like it’s a minority of users on .ml doing it that the admins/mods just haven’t brought the ban hammer down on. The admins are part of the problem along with mods cultivate the toxic tankie culture that gets shit on. It’s the non-tankie .ml users who are in the minority, they should have chosen a better crowd to hang with.
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Can you point me to any member of these “huge groups of well known users” spreading bigotry, racism, and transphobia?
First rule of using Lemmy: If someone claims something happened on the fediverse without providing a link, they’re lying.
“Well known” is so patronizing. It’s like OP is saying “yeah, everyone knows about this, what are you, some kind of loser?”. Another one of those phrases that immediately discredits whatever allegation is to follow.
i assume “be civil” just means that you can’t call people “dipshit asshole dumbass idiot” and things akin to that, i.e needless name calling, calling out perceived problems as long as done civilly, or being rude, but in a civil discussed manner, is i think fair game.
i.e. i could call this a stupid post because it covers what should be clearly demonstrated by common moderation history, i.e. these kinds of threads stay around for a while, these kinds of comments tend to stick around, and that’s generally good enough reason to keep moderating as you are, precedent is a very strong thing.
but i couldn’t just call you a dumbass because you should know this, and therefore you must be the most uneducated person in the history of humanity. Because that’s not civil.
- Why does everyone have beef with lemmy.ml
- Why don’t you just block the instance
Edit: thank you for real responses, got so used to be people getting pissed for no reason on social media that I was genuinely surprised to check Lemmy and see a bunch of genuine answers with no butthurt to be seen
Lemmy devs are tankies, especially the main maintainer
At least they’re more level headed than Nutomic is.
Nutonic is literally a transphobe who is on record as saying that trans rights are western degeneracy
I wonder what Blahaj thinks of him
Hexbear isn’t fond of Nutomic either.
I wouldn’t have a problem with if it wasn’t for the mods
The ml in lemmy ml means marxism-leninism
It means Mali and was chosen because it was cheap/free
You’re both right!
It is Mali’s domain, and Marxist-Leninists choose that domain to work out of because of the initialism.
Kinda like why BIOT’s domain is so popular with the tech folks.
And Tuvalu’s domain is popular with streaming sites
chosen because it was cheap
Um nah, there are a LOT of cheap ass TLDs, hell even .com TLDs are only $10-20 a YEAR
It might not actually mean marxism-leninism (then again, who the hell knows, we have .zip TLDs now ffs), but it sure does to the .ml admins
Back 3y ago the users claimed it did mean marxist-leninist (or rather if we must be pedantic, that the TLD does mean Mali but they chose it because it meant marxist-leninist to them.) They stopped around the time of the exodus (read: they put on a mask to trap unsuspecting redditors) and they’ve ramped back up since everyone defederated hex and grad (my guess, those users created .ml alts specifically to proselytize to the unwilling like Evangelical roaches once their supply to feed their victim complex dried up.)
History for posterity’s sake.
The ml stands for Mali, which is the country the instance domain is registered to. The Marxist-Leninist connection is a happy coincidence for them.
Their mods behave like Russian commissars. Their users go along with it.
Why does everyone have beef with lemmy.ml
The admins and mods cultivate a community of genocide denial and authoritarian apologism, which many users on the instance then buy into.
Why don’t you just block the instance
Instance blocking only blocks communities, not users, who still show up whenever there’s a Chinese genocide to deny or a Russian atrocity to “WHATABOUT”, or a non-Western aligned dictator to “BOTHSIDES”.
My current favorite is Taliban-simping.
You are forgetting the strong hatred for France.
When I accidentally blocked an instance, any comment from a user on that instance would be replaced by a message like “you have blocked this instance and so will not see this comment.” I don’t know if that’s a feature of my client, Connect, or of lemmy itself.
Should be your client.
Damn I’m jealous of your client! That’s a new feature to me!
Enjoy! At least if you’re on Android. I don’t know if an iOS version exists.
I choose not to block the instance because there is a very small group on there that have non-political discussions that I enjoy, same with hexbear.
I also don’t like creating an echo chamber where all I hear is what I want to hear. Hearing from the other side, as disgusting as their viewpoints can be, at least let’s me know how they think.
I don’t agree with their tankie views, but it does force me to see other views. However I usually just eyeroll and move on.
If I see racism or hate though that’s an immediate block.
Agreed, if it’s targeted like that, you get a block.
the other side
Kremlin propaganda isn’t the other side
Yet propaganda is what has the US where we are today. If you understand the propaganda, you can help push back.
Yes, like pushing back against lemmy.ml
I like this view, because I have zero idea what I just walked in on. This account is just 16 days old and I’m just here to chat non-politics and doomscroll. And by 16 days old I mean like 4 because their acceptance email got sent to spam and I didn’t notice it until then.
Tbh, I had no idea there were even factions or drama among the instances.
You should make an account on another instance, if you don’t like the heavy hand of defederation of .world, lemmy.sdf.org is a good one and sh.itjust.works is another
There’s also this community if you want to see for yourself the kind of behavior the admins and mods of .ml support, encourage and even participate in !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works
Honestly, that’s what I’m currently doing. I’ve always chuckled at the cleverness of the name sh.itjust.works. I started on .world, but I forgot to migrate my 2fa because I switched from Google Authenticator to an open source one on a new phone and didn’t take my lemmy token for some damn reason.
I’m only switching because I’m a neutral entity online when it comes to politics and identity. I use the internet to escape that, not dive into it. I don’t mind seeing it, I just move along and let people be people. I’d rather not be potentially tied to an image or faction by association; its nothing against .ml or anything.
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Why does everyone have beef with lemmy.ml
Extending an invitation to peruse !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works for some context of mod behavior
The mods of that community are communists. They seem to mod in good faith but keep that in mind.
- Lots of toxicity and bad takes.
- It isn’t literally the entire instance.
In my experience it is pretty much the entire instance. All the sane people moved to other places.
Yeah, Hexbear is the worst. I would say exploding heads, but they’re gone now.
It isn’t literally the entire instance.
Maybe not, but when the admins and mods are part of the problem, it becomes pervasive.
Your comment has been removed for including carnist hate words. We don’t use words that glorify murder like the “b” word.
Huh
They’re making a shitty “HAHA VEGANS DUMB” joke like it’s 2010.
Tbf, guess what the comms I got banned from are, and guess why? Vegan subs, “carnist propaganda.”
I’m just saying, don’t make a post bemoaning “why do people hate vegans” and then ban the guy saying “because they often behave like evangelical christians.” I got kicked out of church for much the same reason, ironically.
Nah, one of my kids are vegetarian and I cook to support them. I have no issues with vegans. I see how it came across that way though.
I suspect you must have missed the .ml vegan community drama a couple months ago. Take every bad stereotype about vegans and ramp it to 11. Everything was in bad faith. It bled into a couple different communities.
Ohhhhh I actually did miss that completely, my bad.
Ah makes sense, gotta put the /s when making references like that
That would have been better in hindsight.
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Lemmy.ml is admin’d and moderated mostly by Marxists, and the liberal side of Lemmy is hostile to that. That’s the principle contradiction, everything else stems from that core issue.
In my experience, the mods on lemmy.ml are particularly biased. Like it’s okay to joke about American school shootings but not about abortions biased. But after a while I just stopped posting there. (I barely post to lemmy at all now, but that’s another story.)
I’m pretty sure making jokes about shootings is worse that jokes about abortions.
Honestly they are both inappropriate
Reasonable people can disagree about the rules, the point is the mods are inconsistent.
(But seriously, do you really want to say one is worse than the other?)
Lemmy has a very different community than Reddit - here, people are often outright kind.
In part that’s a large reason for the beef with Lemmy.ml, e.g. recently a mod there removed comments for a user over a misunderstanding in a game, and in the process said that they (the MOD!) wanted to shoot them (the OP), doubling down and even tripping down to say “I hope you die soon”. (Described in more detail here.)
It is ironic that one of the very first Lemmy instances, and also being the one whose admins are also the developers of the Lemmy sourcecode, is so much less like the rest of the people on Lemmy, and more like Reddit. But it is what it is.
Why tho? I’m having trouble figuring out the differences in instances
The lemmy.ml instance is known to have admins, mods and users that spread the promotion, praise and propaganda of dictatorships and other authoritarian governments, bigotry, racism and transphobia. Even when there are hard facts against them.
You get banned for stating things like “Russia invaded Ukraine”
When I first got lemmy, I think I signed up to .ml but after a while I couldn’t log in so I made a .world acc
Ooh hard facts? I love hard facts! Which hard facts are you talking about?
How about China is, in fact, a dictatorship for starters. The Communist in “Chinese Communist Party” is just there for show.
China is a capitalistic country with a state guidance in their industrial policy and a dictator in the helm.
They don’t really even have anything in regards to a national health care.
How about China is, in fact, a dictatorship for starters
That could be true. But I wonder, in general, what is the process for determining whether a country is a dictatorship or not, from the outside? China claims to be a democracy and holds elections, like just about every other country under the sun. Of course, not every country with elections is actually a democracy, but if we’re talking “hard facts” I think we need to be able to point to specific, objective things.
The Communist in “Chinese Communist Party” is just there for show.
Isn’t the Chinese Communist Party the single largest self-identifying communist party in the world? Shouldn’t that factor in, like, at least a little bit into our standards for what defines a communist party? Regardless, this is kind of just your subjective opinion, isn’t it? Again, what specific, objective standards are you looking at to distinguish between “real” communism and “fake” communism?
Allowing a fascist to become dictator of the USA will get millions more people genocided than voting for a liberal.
Telling the truth about a liberal, when that truth contains a call to action not to vote against fascism, will get millions more people genocided than shutting up about a liberal.
millions more people genocided
That’s quite a claim. If the US is set to genocide millions of people, then as people at risk of being victims of that, surely we should be treating the US government as the primary threat to our safety, correct?
Username checks out
Lemmy.ml is admin’d and moderated by mostly Marxists. That’s the principle reason, everything else stems from hostility towards Marxism and Marxists.
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:3
>:3
When lemmy.ml answer detected:
I like to get them going. I respond with “that’s BS” or “prove it” and they give me a essay
More energy efficient GPT?
As a resident of a politically indifferent instance that is on good terms with everyone, I can say one thing:
Fuck absolutely everyone who turns Lemmy into yet another Internet battlefield.
Leave .ml alone. Leave Hexbear alone. Even yes - leave Lemmygrad alone. People there will not change their opinion when facing hatred, and newbies coming there doesn’t change the big picture, as Lemmy is federated and they can figure stuff out for themselves.
Trying to silence entire instances, especially the biggest ones, is absolutely not a welcoming picture to whoever’s coming here, and being cut out and filtered for happening to choose the “wrong” instance is the worst possible greeting.
I was on ml and it was pretty chill for a non-tankie. Until a mod powertripped and ban me for insulting an homophobe. Some people like me join the instance without knowing of all this tankie thing. IMO, hexbear is far more toxic.
Ah yeah. Good old fashioned social media toxicity.
Mixed with some old good internal left fighting.
The taste of success. Surely.
internal left fighting.
I’m talking to people on Lemmy.ml who say things like “Reality has a well known Russian propaganda bias”, “Russia was right to invade Ukraine, it needs to be denazified”, “Uighur genocide is made up”, etc, etc etc, I wouldn’t call that “internal left fighting”
In which things is someone allowed to think differently from the US Democratic party before they are expelled from the left?
And fuck Putin, btw. But there are people with widely diverse points of view on an incredibly amount of matters, that can have common grounds on many other issues. And, at least for me, they’ll need to try harder that just being putin’s useful idiots to be expelled from my definition of what the “left” is.
Especially on a matter as complex as Ukraine war. That I gladly support arming and helping Ukraine, and my country will keep arming and helping Ukraine when USA steps back once Trump sits in the office. But I still understand that is a complex issue and that different points of view are expected. I have mine, which is support for Ukraine. Others may support Russia on this. But as long as we both agree on other issues I won’t deny that. If they support end of capitalism, workers rights, LGBT rights or gender equality we would have common ground on those topics.
But I still understand that is a complex issue and that different points of view are expected. I have mine, which is support for Ukraine.
Russia invaded Ukraine. That’s a war of aggression. Russia is wrong in this. Don’t pretend like it’s a “complex issue” and “we need to listen to both sides”.
No, we don’t. Russia is the aggressor, they’re in the wrong, they need to fuck off from Ukraine and Putin be held responsible in a court of international law. There’s no ifs ands or buts about it.
“We could have common ground…”
Yeah I don’t need to have any common ground with people who actively lie, spread disinformation, undermine legitimate information, deny international crimes, deny genocides, spread values of authoritarian nations.
I don’t even identify with any left-right division but I’m definitely not what you’d call an “enlightened centrist”, because that’s a garbage position for garbage people who are afraid of any sort of confrontation.
About a bit less than a hundred years ago there were discussion like “we need to appease this Hitler fellow, seems awfully mad” “maybe if we don’t protest over him taking the Sudetenland, he’ll calm down?”
Would you be intellectually arguing the merits of Hitler’s invasion of Sudetenland as “a complex issue, you have to consider both sides”?
No. Fuck that. Take a stance.
I have a stance. I did say I support Ukraine. Same I say I’m clearly leftist.
But you don’t need to stop being able to think just because you support a side. You can support a side and still understand the complexity of the issue, and that you are supporting the lesser evil.
I still support Ukraine on this. Mostly because Russia initiated hostilities, and because I think the European Union is a better place to live than Russia. We protect people’s rights better. But it’s a complex issue because there are people in some Ukrainian regions that does not want to be Ukrainian anymore, and that does not want to be forced to move away from Russian influence. And this is clearly a proxy war between two empires.
I have my stance, but I’m not blinded by it.
I don’t need to think “all opinions are equal” to be “able to think”. I don’t need to accept Russians saying they’ve done nothing wrong and to “consider it from their point of view.” Russia broke international law.
It’s not a complex issue.
Oh yeah the old “no there’s definitely people who actually want to be Russians in the parts of Ukraine Russia invaded illegally so they should probably maybe be able to keep those illegally invaded areas.” No. Is there documentation of, say, Ukrainian people voting in Russian elections? That might imply they consider themselves Russians, right? Yes, there is documentation of that.
Occupied Ukraine encouraged to vote in Russian election by armed men
Stop being an apologist to Russia.
Do you understand that by calling me Russian apologists, when I’ve said several times that I support Ukraine, is just making my point?
You see enemies even in your allies.
If we are naming moustached men I remember some paranoid mustache men that also thought everyone was his enemy. How did that feel? Ah?
Last paragraph is just a joke, I don’t actually think you are a stalinist just because you are so radical in your views, but you get me.
You can say you support Ukraine, and still be apologist for Russia. Those aren’t mutually exclusive.
“You are so radical in your views.”
You’re literally an apologist for Russian authoritarianism. You’re spreading the propaganda that occupied Ukrainians actually want to be Russians. That is bullshit that Russia has been spreading for years. It’s not controversial either. You just keep yourself ignorant, and probably didn’t even click on the link I pasted, and definitely didn’t read it. And you have the nerve to talk to me about the “ability to think”?
“Our citizens are very afraid. Of course if Russians with soldiers come to their flat and ask if they’d like to vote for Putin, everyone will say: OK, yes. Because everyone wants to save their life. But it does not mean that our citizens want to support Putin.”
One resident of the Kherson region - the south-eastern part which is occupied by Russian forces - described to the BBC how voting was organised in his village.
We are unable to disclose his name or location due to security concerns.
“Pro-Russian locals visit households with ballot boxes, accompanied by armed military men. If they knock and no one opens, they move on to the next house. They don’t break into houses, but they do visit,” the local resident said.
They added: "This is ridiculous. What kind of election is it when there are two locals - one holding a list of voters and the other a ballot box - and a military man with a machine gun? This isn’t democracy. It’s a comedy show."
Here’s more.
Ukraine war: Russia claims win in occupied Ukraine ‘sham’ referendums
News agencies run by the pro-Kremlin administrations in Donetsk and Luhansk are reporting that up to 99.23% of people voted in favour of joining Russia - a high percentage that would be unusual in a vote of this nature.
Like you can’t… or won’t call bullshit on things like ^ that?
You supposedly being “for Ukraine” doesn’t really matter when you’re touting Russian propaganda, consciously or not.
Doesn’t mean all .ml users are like that.
What happens here is an attack on a wide group based on a very arbitrary characteristic.
It’s not arbitrary, it’s a picked identity which shares some common features.
It’s not that we’re judging all .ml users. It’s just that any .ml user can be a potential tankie who will defend Putin to his grave, like the admins and mods.
This is reflected in the content on the instance, and what sort of things you’re allowed to post there. Which does influence people using said instance, even if very slightly, and unnoticeably.
I don’t actually agree with the meme, but the humour stems from the fact that it could be true insofar that it’s pretty often that you’ll find shameless tankies wanting to suck Putler off and destroy “western imperialists”.
So I do take comments at their own value, no matter the instance you’re from. But lemmy.ml is almost as shit as lemmygrad.ml
love me a classic .ml worthless posting, it’s my favorite.
Non-tankies on .ML getting upset at this:
You might not be an idiot, but you’re wearing a T-shirt that says “I AM AN IDIOT” in bold letters across your chest. Maybe change your shirt. 🤷🏻♂️
i’ve created this alt in the interim of finding a more permanent instance residence. Just got exhausted by the massive amount of shit they peddled over there.
Lemmy.sdf.org is a good one with a “very light touch” attitude towards defederating instances of what you’re interested in
Sh.itjust.works is also a good one with great admins I’ve heard (and also funny name)
I hear a lot a spam comes from shi.itjust.works
I’ve seen people say this, but haven’t actually seen it outside of one asshat who picked a fight with Beehaw a year+ ago.
As a user I’ve had a pretty great experience personally.
I’ve just heard from other mods that it can be a source of problems
Could be the case of a vocal minority. The biggest complaints I have scene is that the instance admins allow whatever
dbzer0 is chill if you like the more corner posting type shit, as well as some piracy related shit.
Come to .nz! Our admin has the best track record on trans rights out of any instance drag is aware of.
TODO: pedal vs peddle.
I bet there’s not a gratuitous amount of bicycling going on over in .ml land, but I could be mistaken.
fixed from ‘pedalled’ to ‘peddled’. I’ve met a decent number of Marxist cyclists, so i could believe it.
Could be, I’m no expert on cycling.
to better analogize this, you’re hanging around a nazi rally trying to find friends, and people keep calling you a nazi for some reason.
Weird.
As a Lemmy user I don’t care for this
I feel like Lemmy has the reputation of being Tankie
It literally does though. I stopped telling people that I use Lemmy as a result. When some instance defederates from ML and establishes itself as being solid, I’d love to tell people irl that I use that.
If you are trying to say not to paint people with too broad of a brush, I get it, but also, we don’t get to choose how others think of us, only what we will do in response.
It’s a metaphor since tankies don’t seem to exist or make a difference in real life
They’d have to go outside to do that.
average lemming experience really.
There are a few tankies on other instances. The difference is that they get in trouble when they act out.
Developer: makes platform
End User: “Fuck you.”
Tale as old as time.
But unlike Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and Larry Page, the good folks at .ml did nothing wrong.
Genocide apologia is ‘nothing wrong’ to you, I see. Unsurprising.
It’s UnderpantsWeevil, our very own local .world tankie
I have never seen .ml people engage in genocide apologia. They’re fond of authoritarian governments which I find distasteful, but they aren’t pro-genocide.
A while back they were calling for the total destruction of France
Go ask about the Uyghurs in China over there and get back to me
Ask them about the Uyghur genocide or the ongoing genocide of Ukrainians or the Holodomor or the deportation of the Crimean Tatars or etc etc etc etc
Drag has seen many .mls say “Democrats are Republicans are exactly the same.”
The difference between Harris 2024 vs Trump 2024 is one genocide vs three. That’s millions of lives.
Drag has seen many .mls deny the loss of millions of Palestinian, Ukrainian, and transgender lives to push their agenda.
Genocide denial is wrong.
Stop with the sensationalism
Nyet comrade. Is liberal American racism of Russia phobia to criticize purge of Ukraine Nazi from motherland.
man this is such runglish holy shit
I am .NL not .ML please don’t hate on me dyslexic lemmys
All tankie users are in .ml, but not all .ml users are tankies.
You should always judge the merit of the comment, not whether or not the person is from .ml. If you see a comment that is pro-CCP or pro-Kremlin from an .ml user, then the point of the meme is valid. But a well-thought, benign, good-faith or wholesome comment from an .ml user should not be dismissed.
I used to be on ml when I first joined lemmy because I did know better, now I love my instance.
Except the pro-Russians won’t say they’re pro-Russians.
A lot of Russian propaganda is just sowing FUD.
Here’s a tangentially related comic, as I just read the latter bit of your comment in that tone, (not saying you’re guilty of the same things.)
Basically, because being directly pro-Russia is so see-through, a lot of bad actors merely sow FUD. For one check Davel@lemmy.ml if you want an example. A very polite person who lists links and sources (firehose of falsehood is also a soviet strategy btw).
Dude pretends to be American, talks American politics, but always in line with Russian propaganda, while saying things like “reality has a well known Russian propaganda bias” and absolutely refusing to address whether he is pro-Russian or not, despite very clearly having talking points which show he is strongly pro-Russian.
So either he’s an American who fucking loves Soviet culture and larps being Russian, is actively against Ukraine and believes Russia was eight to invade it, so the least patriotic American to ever exist.
OR… (and I believe this to be a tad more likely) he’s actually a lying Russian.
But Russians aren’t known for disinformation and lies, right? Right…?
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